Calvinist claim they are elected.

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by ILUVLIGHT, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Everyone;
    Calvinist claim they are elected, yet not one example of a Gentile who is elected can be shown in scripture that I've seen.

    Calvinist say they are elect because they believe and continue to do so. Is this really election? What I'd like to know is since Calvinist believe election is individual,instead of universal. Why can't they show scripture proving that it is possible for a Gentile to be elected at all?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  2. johnp.

    johnp.
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    ILUVLIGHT.

    No that is not election but a very good sign that election has taken place. It is the belief that Jesus died for our sins. That's where our faith is, in Christ not in ourselves.

    1PE 2:9-10 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

    johnp. :cool:
     
  3. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    ILUVLIGHT

    Will these do?

    ROM. 1:16 NIV
    I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

    Rom. 9:24
    even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles.

    Eph. 3:6
    This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    If the Jews are elected or appointed to be in Christ then Gentiles are also.
     
  4. Johnv

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    ILUVLIGHT, it sounds like you are describing hypercalvinism, and not mainline calvinism. Big difference.
     
  5. Wes Outwest

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    So, you are saying that ALL who hear the Gospel message and Believe are the elect, and that they were not the elect prior to actually believing! So there is no "written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation of the world", only that there is a Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world INTO WHICH our names get written when we become believers in the Lamb of God, who is Jesus!

    I believe, therefore I am an Elect! Glory Halelujah!


    Next topic!
     
  6. johnp.

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    What's that Wes, stamping your feet won't help you know?

    And do not take the Lord's name in vain.

    johnp.
     
  7. prophecynut

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    Many hear or are invited but few are chosen to be the elect in Christ.


    Gentiles were not the elect prior to their faith in Christ, they were "aliens" and separate from God (Eph. 2:12,19).

    Jews were the elect as a people before they believed in Christ and become the elect in Christ at their conversion along with the Gentiles.


    Believer's names are written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Those not written in the book of life, such as those who worship the AC and his image (Rev. 13:8), will not see their names listed in the "book of life" at the great white throne judgment of the unsaved (Rev. 20:12).
     
  8. Wes Outwest

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    And do not take the Lord's name in vain.

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Excuse me? Just where did I use the Lord's Name in vain?
     
  9. Wes Outwest

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    You Calvinists certainly need to line up your ducks, they wander thither and yon. Seems like no two of you have the same story.
     
  10. dianetavegia

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  11. prophecynut

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    There are slight variations of Calvinism which has a core belief that God decides who becomes saved or not. Those chosen in this present dispensation to receive Christ as saviour, Jew or Gentile, are the elect.

    You continue to disagree and believe it is man's decision, yet the Scriptures do not confirm this.

    John 1:12-13
    "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

    Rm. 9:16
    " It does not , therefore, depend on man's desire or effort , but on God's mercy.

    I know you're smarter than me, so why is it you can't understand the above.

    quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG] quack [​IMG]
     
  12. johnp.

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    Wes.

    There in bold. Used at the end of a sentence that derides.

    johnp.
     
  13. Wes Outwest

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    Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle,....

    Lets look at
    Let's decifer what is said. First "to all who received him" What does that mean? I means that every human who decides for himself to believe in Jesus.
    "to those who believed in his name" Meaning even choosing to believe in the Name 'Jesus'.
    "he" who? Jesus of course
    "he gave the right to be come children of God" Lets establish right here that what is being said is spiritual in nature, and Not biological, not procreation, it is instead, "of the spirit" It is a spiritual decision that must be made by the human, and it goes like this:

    I have heard all about Jesus, and I decide for myself that I believe that what I have heard is trustworthy. Therefore, I believe in the person of Jesus, and I trust him with my life!

    Now where did the information about Jesus that I heard come from? It came from God's Word, therefore it is "of God". Since it is "of God" and since it has changed my belief and since I now trust, even in the name of Jesus, I must now accept that I am "re-born of God". My new self that believes in Jesus is now Born of God. Therefore, I am a child of God! And ALL that I had to do is believe...even on the name of Jesus.

    The decision to believe is 100% human. The reason for the decision is that God's Word confronts our own limited abilities. God's Word expands the possibilities for me and makes me decide whether or not to believe. It is up to my spirit to weight the evidence in my mind and determine if it is believable. Once I have determined it to be believable, I had to decide whether or not to trust it. That is where the Holy Spirit comes in. The Holy Spirit with it's ultrabright light, illuminates that which is true and based on that illumination I decided that YES! Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh, and that Jesus is the long awaited Messiah of the Jews, and he is therefore My redeemer. I DO TRUST HIM. I SHALL FOLLOW HIM. HE IS MY ADVOCATE to the FATHER.

    Now Romans 9:16. In context Paul is speaking to the Romans about the JUSTICE OF GOD, not Salvation in God. God says that He alone decides whom he will show favor to. Well sir, God has been showing Favor to all mankind for at least 2000 years. He has not meted out his wrath on anyone that we know of, not even Hitler, or Stalin, or Castro, or any other tyrant. So it must be that God in his grace wants "whosoever" to believe in Him. He continues to give us time to do just that! But woe to those who don't.

    You claim that I am smarter than you but that is not true. God did not look at the two of us and say I'm going to bless Wes Outwest with greater intelligence that I do Prophesynut! I am not smarter than you, I see that you have all your quacks in a row.

    I trust you now have a better understanding of John 1:12,13.
     
  14. Wes Outwest

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    There in bold. Used at the end of a sentence that derides.

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Johnp, do you the scholar not know that the meaning of the word Halelujah is "Praise the Lord"?

    If that is the name of the Lord, then it is just as insulting to say "Praise the Lord" as the last expression.

    Get real Johnp! I could just as easily said Praise the lord. But you, with your convoluted theology, would have jumped all over me for using "another name for Jesus" at the end of a sentence, thus using the name of the Lord in vain.
     
  15. johnp.

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    Dosen't matter what expression was used you used the expression in a sentence that uttered your contempt of a certain type of believer.

    I believe, therefore I am an Elect! Glory Halelujah! Praise the Lord.

    I can say it though. See what I mean? :cool:

    johnp.
     
  16. Wes Outwest

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    I must say, I do not see what you mean.

    Could you say it a different way perhaps?
     
  17. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi John P;
    One thing I do know is that Peter was very reluctant to preach to the Gentiles. This why he had that dream about the sheet with unclean things on it.
    I don't believe he is talking to Gentiles here or is referring to them unless of course you are saying that election is universal. There is nothing singularly individual in this passage but is talking about a people.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  18. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Prophecynut;
    If I would have known the amont of verses that would come out to support universal election I would have asked these questions before. I've marked all these in my Bible thankyou.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  19. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi JohnV;
    Well actually this is how it has been described to me. What's your view of election? Is it individual or universal?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  20. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Wes;
    Could you show with scripture why you believe that you are elect because you believe? I haven't seen any scriptures that support this at all.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     

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