Featured Calvinist Pastors being up front about their doctrine.

Would I be correct to assume that even though the pastor of your church had personal Calvinistic views he still preached an Arminian sermon from the puplit? And this is why it wasn't a big deal for your church? I would think that if he was to preach TULIP to the congregation there would have been a huge uproar and divisions happening. All of the Calvinistic preachers that I have heard preach preach an Arminian sermon when it comes to the open church service. Like John MacArthur does. I will tell you this, John gives some very pasionate Arminian pleas to come to Jesus, even though he believes most are not allowed.

 

Calvinists urge sinners to repent and believe and plead with men all the time, because they know that God will enable all the elect to do so.That is what you do not grasp.The difference is that they ask God to enable those dead sinners to repent and believe, if it be His will.

This is not calvinism...it is your misunderstanding of it.

 

Oh, I think I have a pretty good grasp on it. So are you telling me that all people are allowed to come to Christ? Because I said that according to Calvinism all are not allowed to and you say I misunderstand........

 

If a person makes a plea to come to Jesus.....Steaver, tell me why is that Arminian or Calvinistic? Who has a patent on coming to Christ? Personally thats what I consider both dangerous & obtuse. I have told you time & time again that the free offering of the gospel is not election (but that seems to be your sticking point)....no the free offering of the gospel is Christs promises to save all who come to him. Now the onus is on you...if you believe that that statement is ARMINIAN, then tell me (in detail) how that is owned by an Arminian?

 

No you dont....because if you did we wouldnt be going round & round with this nonsense.....you "Think" you dont know--2 different things entirely.

By your 1st statement to Icono, are you saying he is suggesting universal atonement? Your statement was "all people" was it not?

And you do misunderstand our belief in atonement ---Particular Redemption---in other words, so far as salvation is concerned, Jesus came into the world specifically to save those individuals whom the Father had given him, and not others. Not allowed is an incorrect assumption on your part. Again I will go thru this excersize for you ....

Here is your primary question. Do Calvinists not then teach that some might want salvation but could not have it because they are not one of the elect?

and again the answer is: No, the man who wants salvation already HAS it. The man who hungers and thirsts (desires it) after righteousness is a blessed character (Matt. 5: 2-6). The alien sinner doesn't want salvation, he doesn't fear God, and he doesn't love God; therefore we conclude that the man who wants salvation, fears God and loves God is a subject of grace (Rom. 3: 11, 18; I John 4: 10) .

 

Whenever you talk to a Calvinist, expect double-talk. They are very clever and precise how they say things. They will say that anybody who wants to come to Christ can. What they will not say is that they believe God only enables some to be willing to come to Christ.

Now, the Arminian or non-Cal believes that 100% of men have the ability to come to Christ, though many will choose not to come. The Calvinist believes only those persons whom God regenerates have the ability to come to Christ.

But they won't say all that, they will say that anybody who wants to come to Christ can. What they say is true, but it is misleading. They give the impression that 100% of men can come, when they do not believe that at all.

 

RM,

If and when a poster really is looking for an answer, one will be given.When a poster is not looking for an answer but instead set to resist at all costs ,then it is casting pearls before swine. Being you raised the question I will respond to these who just seek to resist ... no matter what.

When i give the readers digest version short answer it is not meant to be exhaustive , but rather get at the root cause of the problem.Steaver and Winman, are not really interested in the answer .maybe others will be.

 

Excuse me Mark, its an obtuse statement like this, from whom????

Let me correct you here brother...... Its an obtuse statement FROM ICONOCLAST.....

You wanta blast Icono. thats one thing .....but when you bring all Calvinists into this firefight, thats quite another thing. Im sure that was just an oversight on your part but it isnt right to condemn all ..... I will say no more.

 

Here you go rev...... you want to be this guy?

"Whenever you talk to a Calvinist, expect double-talk"

From what Ive seen of your demeanor, I wouldnt believe so?

 

Good, then you insult 6 generations of my family & more on my wifes side. Ive never seen that behavior from any of my aunts & uncles so I ..... Never mind, I thought better of you.

 

You have boasted several times as if you are posting some great truth, but in reality it shows you really do not understand biblical calvinism at all.
I will begin to show you why that is as requested by RM:

Let's examine some of your statements;

1]

The gospel is freely preached unto ALL MEN. The bible teaches that..God hath commanded all men everywhere to repent. Acts17

2]

Calvinism does not teach that all men are not allowed to......YOU DO MISUNDERSTAND!

Are all men going to be saved-NO

Are all that the Father gives to the Son going to be saved-yes

Has the Father given us the knowledge of who are the ALL that he hath given to the SON-NO

So we can preach to all men everywhere.-yes

Who are you, I , or anyone else to say who God will and has purposed in His mercy to save. The fact that the bible reveals a Covenant salvation that will be effectual to all the elect is not your business as far as the subject of who to preach to. They are two different issues.

Go into all the world and preach to all men making disciples is commanded.

Does it say preach only to the Elect?-no...it says all men, all sinners.

The fact that God has already elected a multitude in His Son does not alter one bit the command to proclaim the truth unto all men everywhere.


The Elect will.....repent of sin, come to Jesus, believe and continue to believe, obey lawful commands, show and bear fruit of a converted life.

When the Calvinist preachers urges sinners to "come to Jesus" he is believing and expecting the Spirit to move upon sinners in granting repentance unto life in regeneration and conversion of new birth.
Ther Calvinist preacher understands that no man can come, unless the Father draws the sinner.Nevertheless it is not the work of preaching to try and use tear -jerking illustrations to evoke an emotional and fleshly response.

No..he preaches the word by the Spirit and leaves the results to God.

A biblical Calvinist does not know who individually is Elect. Humanly speaking every person we meet could be a sinner that God is going to save as here:
9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

In verse 10......God does not say...
I will save ALL MEN in this City
I desire ALL MEN in this City to be saved
I really wish they would believe you Paul
I am too much of a gentlemen to force them to believe
I am not willing that any perish
I have exactly 493 men here, keep preaching till we get 493 decisions.
I am going to tell you their names and addresses, emails, and cell phone numbers

No...He does say:
I am with you
I have much people in this city[ whom he did foreknow]


He did not tell Paul, because it was not Paul's business to know that information. Paul knew all about the Covenant promises.Paul taught about election and predestination more than any other Apostle, and yet he was passionate about souls.

Any God called pastor is called to be faithful. That is why you do not understand. Read a bit without a jaundiced eye.

Johnny Mac does not "preach like an Arminian. He always qualifies his statements as all Cals do. i have literally heard thousands of sermons and what you are posting is nonsense.

 

Revmitchell

RM,
I type slowly. I am home tonight so have some extra time. Many times I post after a 14 hour day...so I am not looking to go long unless it looks like it might be fruitful.
Most times I am posting in a private place and as i am responding i get into some gospel opportunites as I am posting, so i put the bb post on hold and speak with the live soul who God has providentially put in my path.

If you remember I did try to meet with you in person but you were hindered from coming.I have no secrets.
What questions do you want answered? I will give you as direct an answer as you are going to get. You might not like it, but it will be scriptural based and quite direct. if we get to meet in person you will find I can speak faster than i can post ...so we can get in a good bit of fruitful discussion if you are up for it.

With the obvious falsehoods being spoken by steaver and winman, 24/7 it is tedious to offer a response in that when you take them verse by verse, they explain it all away. or if i quote a source that completely answers the question they will not look or attempt to work through the quote.That is why you see a short response.They do not work through a posted source because they cannot.
Sometime the short response is just that....to judge if they are serious or just posting idiocy.
If a short response is offered and someone else responds with apparent genuine interest then the answer will be given.

 

Calvinism teaches that ALL are NOT allowed to come to Christ. That is Calvinism's view of Election. You cannot escape that truth. Non-Calvinist's view of Election is that ALL are allowed, but only the Elect will come.

Maybe you haven't listened to John MacArthur's sermons. He pleads with his listeners to make sure they don't have an unbelieving heart. All the while believing in TULIP, knowing full well according to TULIP's teaching that it matters not how much you plead with the person to believe, he or she cannot unless God ALLOWS them to. So it ends up sounding pretty hypocritical really. "I beg of you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". What? Why the begging? Does John's begging help God regenerate?

 

Wow, I am surprised that one who prides himself in properly applying the scriptures and keeping them in correct context would consider giving scripture to fellow disagreeing believers as casting pearls before swine! Maybe you do think that anyone who does not embrace TULIP is really a child of the devil?

 

No...you just profile

 

Define "come to Christ". Therein lies part of the problem.