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Calvinist, Reformed Theology No Longer Allowed

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by reformedbeliever, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    I think within this debate there are a lot of unnecessary semantical arguments. Making Christ Lord of your life is part of faith. It is not a seperate issue. People spend way to much time trying to break theological issues down to their lowest common denominator and it really isn't necessary. Much of the legalism that is espoused today is a result of this.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That's what JMac wants you to think, but it's not what is taught. Here's a couple of excellent article in regards to LS

    http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2006/10/relationship-between-gods-grace.html

    http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2006/10/macarthurs-discipleship-gospel.html
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Semantics aside...does a lost person know what true discipleship to Jesus Christ is?
     
  4. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    So you accept the Biblical requirement to acknowledge Christ as L:eek:rd in order to be saved? You've been arguing against it for quite a while. Well, I accept it too. Now, do you understand?
     
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Exactly, and one cannot exchange a commitment for true discipleship (something only a true believer knows about) for salvation. This is LS in a nutshell.
     
  6. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    let's not confuse discipleship with a heart that is willing to call Christ Lord. It is false that these are the same. Zacheus was willing to restore to those he had wronged four fold and give half of the remaining to the poor. He did not sit through a 12 week discipleship class. This was immediate. Just a a true conversion will be immediately obvious.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Always have. Difference in acknowledging Christ as Lord (that's faith) and agreeing to a lifetime of works in exchange for salvation.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Did Zacheus agree to that in exchange for salvation...or because he was already regenerated at that point?
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Isn't it best to quote the actual person who said something rather than someone who has a blog about something?

    I quoted MacArthur himself. Your articles contain personal opinions.
     
  10. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    While I se your point that is one of the unecessary semantical arguments. Making Christ Lord is part of Faith. That will always be my answer.
     
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    And MacArthurs article is not personal opinion :laugh:

    OK. George Zeller:

    “Don’t confuse saving faith with that which saving faith ought to produce. Don’t confuse repentance with the fruits of repentance. Behavior and fruit are the evidences of saving faith but they are not the essence of saving faith. Don’t confuse the fruit with the root. Before you can “come after” Christ in discipleship (Luke 9:23; Matt. 11:29-30), you must “come unto” Christ for salvation (Matthew 11:28). Discipleship is not a requirement for salvation; discipleship is the obligation of every saved person.”​
     
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't see a problem with this quote. What do you disagree with?
     
  13. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    George is trying to equate making Christ Lord with discipleship.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I agree with it. That's my point. It's in direct contradiction of Lordship Salvation and John Macarthur's view:

    "That is the kind of response the Lord Jesus called for: wholehearted commitment. A desire for him at any cost. Unconditional surrender. A full exchange of self for the Savior. It is the only response that will open the gates of the kingdom. (The Gospel According to Jesus: [Revised & Expanded Edition], p. 148)
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    What? He's talking about discipleship AFTER one is saved, not in exchange for salvation.
     
  16. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    John has it correct.

    Lu 9:62 - And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
     
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I still don't see this as saying that we are saved only by an up front commitment to Christ. I would have to read the entire context of this quote before coming to that conclusion.

    If we do not have a whole hearted commitment to Christ, then we are not saved. But, that is not what saves us. Faith in Christ is what saves.
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You are still confusing the real issue. "Looking back" is not the same as looking forward. If one is looking back, they are already saved. THE ISSUE is a commitment from spiritually dead people that they will EXCHANGE a lifetime of discipleship FOR salvation. This is NOT faith.
     
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That's fine. Let me ask you this: Is faith (the substance of things hoped for and the reality of what is not seen) an exchange of works for salvation?
     
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think you are misunderstanding Lordship Salvation. You are trying to make these people say things that they are not saying.
     
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