Calvinist response to FotF commercial of John 3:16

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

I will have to continue to believe draw. Learning is drawing to me, learned, be taught keywords.

 

Not if you remain in your rejection of Christ.
Rejection can only be forgiven if you ask for it. Once you dead of course it's to late.
MB

 

What's pitiful is that you actually believe that 1st Jn. 2:2 is "meaningless" according to what you wrote in post 15

You wish. You really need to throw that logic of your's in the trash.

If this were true you would have countered with those scriptures from the rest of scripture inorder to prove your point. You didn't do that I suspect because you didn't have anything but your logical opinion

Oh, yeah, sure.... Of course you can explain my Logic. I do not use logic I use scripture. This is what botherd you most.
MB

 

So Christ did not take upon Himself all the sins of the world.

When one comes to Christ is the sin of unbelief retroactively applied to Christ?

 

Ok, let's say it does means to pull or drag such as a fishing net. Does a fisherman always capture every fish he pulls or drags in? No, and this is shown in scripture.

Luk 5:4 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.
5 And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
6 And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.

The disciples did not capture every fish they dragged or pulled in, the net brake and some escaped. There is a spiritual application shown here if you will receive it.

 

Winman does crack me up sometimes.:laugh:

 

I loved it!

 

Reply to Greektim,

Questioning my qualifications and character is without merit, a logical fallacy as far as defending your assertions.

The lexicons include those two meanings. I did a study of every usage by John of the word and found that these two meanings fit every usage.

False on three fronts, Jerome pointed out that the OED said it meant attract over 400 years ago. Strike one. John 12:32 uses the word to indicate attract all men, strike two. The Septuagint uses this same word to say God draws by lovingkindness, strike three.

Calvinism relies on redefining the meanings of words to pour their manmade doctrine into the text, hence draw means drag, choice means non-choice, and world means whatever fits the Calvinist template. It is a joke.

 

Well you are the one who wrote it. I'm not a mind reader so I have no idea what you really think. You did say 1st. Jn 2:2 was meaningless. And said it did not support the fact that Christ died for everyone's sins.

You don't need logic to understand scripture all we need is God. I always consider Him and His word. You should too.

Well you are right here. I won't read the rest of what you wrote. Simply carrying on a conversation with you is completely undesireable.
MB

 

PadreDurand...

The more accurate way of saying that would be...

God will redeem all of the "who-soever-wills.

 

Hello WD,

Yes...The sins of the Covenant children were PIF....yes....

If we were agreed on whose sin was paid for...we could agree.

I see the truth of the sins of the elect, in particular as actually paid in full.

When you try to say that all mens sins are paid for[potentially] we differ.

Yes......all sins must be punished......in the sinner,or in the substitute

When Jesus dies for His people[elect sheep] their sins are paid in full as Jesus undergo's the wrath for them....it is finished!
When I see the blood...I will passover you. 1cor 5:7
For those outside of Jesus...the wrath of God is revealed at judgement day,they have no propitiation to turn away the wrath...so they undergo that wrath as scripture says ...without mercy.

justice takes place when all sin is paid for by God's righteous judgement.

 

If all sin was not PIF at the cross, death and the curse will remain for all creation outside the "elect". Yet we know all creation groans in anticipation of redemption.

 

Well okay...that is also an important consideration....my first thought would be that at judgement day this sin cursed earth and all remnants of the curse will be destroyed and cast into hell...the earth and the evil works burnt up... and the new heaven and new earth which we have entered as citizens will be manifest;

for the non elect....yes they remain in the realm of death...seperated fron God....under the curse of death...but second death;

Jesus does refer to the goats as cursed

WD,
I cannot help too much with this as I am constantly re-examing this topic of the ...already/not yet in reference to the kingdom.
I believe the Kingdom is now.....growing and expanding as the gospel spreads worldwide to all men[jn 3:16] How much we are to have an effect here and now....how and why we[local churches] are coming short of Kingdom responsibilites...how can we better "occupy" until he comes?

I am currently considering some of the Ot prophetic passages..seeing what they tell us about the conduct of the gentiles who come to the light.

 

WD....do you see all the kingdom as future?
What do you see as happening in our lives now?

 

Thank you Icon for the most recent posts in this discussion. This is how civil and mutually respectful dialogue should happen, even knowing that one is some distance theologically from the other.

 

QF,
Believers have real enemies to contend with.....the world, the flesh ,and the devil.
I would like it more if we could work to upgrade the BB....into a fountain of grace,instruction and edification....
A message board has it's ups and downs...new persons come in ,and want to lash out at "error"...we are all susceptible to getting over-heated and blowing a fuse.
When error is perceived...it is correct to offer correction. Sometimes if our emotions are not in check...we can be harsh or over-react..in a fleshly way, when trying to offer the correction however.
I have sinned in this way....and I have noticed that quite possibly some others have as well....maybe, just maybe all of us for sure.
If our internal thoughts were made manifest on the board...we would all be guilty for sure.....like Paul in Romans 7 .....of wretched man that I am...not oh wretched man that I was:laugh:

QF....you have a certain kind of personality...that comes from being in an academic setting
[ although the teachers lounge can be a caldron of lewd conversation from time to time].
Also if you have walked with the Lord for some time you will exhibit the fruits of the Spirit.
Some of us are in different situations. That does not excuse rough, or base behaviour...but sometimes like Lot ....our souls are vexed with the conversation of the wicked. The world wants to ...rub off on us.
We must watch unto prayer.

Many have expressed this same concern in recent weeks..and some small progress has been made. If it grows, the BB will progress toward being a worthwhile place to edify all who come in.

 

This sort of a drive-by post where I will share my vast knowledge and insights, then humbly step aside.

I want to deal with the word "world," because it is important to understand that the word does not always mean every person without exception.

Let's look at some of its uses in the Bible.
Unbelievers vs. sinners
John 7:17 Jesus speaking

John 12:31

John 14:27

See also John 15:18 Matthew 18:9 Revelation 13:3

Gentiles vs. Jews
Romans 11:12-15

A cross-section of tongues, tribes, nations
Revelation 5:9

See also 7:9

The created universe
Matthew 13:38

See also Matthew 26:13 Acts 17:24

The generality of known people
John 12:19b

See also John 7:4 Matthew 24:14
(Source A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine by Thomas Paul Simmons 1935)

Hope this helps advance the discussion.