Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, May 19, 2012.

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  1. Skandelon

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    I've noticed that Calvinists can't seem to stand it when obviously smart and well respected believers are known to be non-Calvinistic. Men like AW Tozer, GK Chesterton, JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis and the like are examples of this.

    I stumbled upon this article where Piper attempts to adopt such great writers into their very 'small' Calvinistic perspective and it just made me giggle inside. I thought some of you might enjoy it. :godisgood:

    http://www.mjaybennett.com/2008/05/piper-on-gk-chesterton-and-calvinism.html
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    I have not noticed that. In fact they never come to mind with most believers I know. Some read a bit of them it seems. Nothing wrong with that at all. Believing calvinistic truth from scripture is God given....so it does not matter if the believer is smart ,or not so smart...the truth is revealed by the Spirit.....or the truth is witheld by Him.
    many comment on what Piper thinks ,says , or does. He is a bit of a wild card....and does not reflect the mainstream thinking.
    like these other persons.....you can pick and choose from what they offer.
    Most Calvinists when they read outside scripture....spend more time in the trusted works...sifting through for nuggets of truth to supplement their understanding.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, May 19, 2012
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  3. Skandelon

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    Why do you suppose God would withhold this Calvinistic 'truth' from some of his Children and not others?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    So what is your point? Many very intelligent people are atheists even though they may be fools in the eyes of God. Anyhow aren't you a little old to "giggle"?
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    There are many possibilities here;

    1] He has a reason in His providence

    2] Some truths are necessary for an individual person,and not for another...because of who they will interact with in life

    3] Some have come to partial truth....and stop looking into it

    4] Some desire more truth, pray ,and it is granted

    5] some violate other scriptural principles, so truth is witheld from them

    6] some have received bad teaching which hinders truth from being welcomed

    7]some have a fear of man

    8] some have a proud spirit...God resists them

    9]some are not actual believers. they profess to be, have an outward form of religion, but do not know Jesus.
    10]some cannot read , or are in other ways feeble mentally...so cannot grasp some things

    11] having some truths that are harder to grasp,causes many to have to study more,and not assume they "have it all"

    12] charismatic distractions,and errors

    13] emotional issues ,causing resistance...with having God be God.

    14] Some are used by satan to cast doubt on God's word

    15] pride of life, thinking that they know more than all the church has held, they alone have a view that no one else has


    these are a few quick ones.....keep in mind we are all still learning....so a person found in one of these categories does not have to remain there.
    As they mature they can transition out of any of these.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    Smarts have nothing to do with understanding truth. Truth is revealed by the Spirit, not by ones intellect.

    Looks to me that the OP is crediting man again for mans intelligence and giving glory to man. It's fitting as it goes along with the 'theology' of said. :)

    Non-cals and arminians can't stand it when you point this out to them.

    :wavey:
     
    #6 preacher4truth, May 19, 2012
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  7. Herald

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    I find threads like this amusing as best, tiresome at worst. Amusing because the person starting it is consumed with finding a way to paint the other side in the least flattering light possible. Tiresome because they bring nothing new to the discussion.
     
  8. Skandelon

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    So by debating this point you are fighting his providence? How does your efforts here fit in with this view?

    So, you admit Calvinism's truth is not necessary for some? Ok.

    These would contradict your premise that it is totally of God because these points put it back onto man by suggesting they must "look" for, desire, and pray for truth so as to get it. So, which is it?

    So, sin prevents truth from being revealed to some? Again, wouldn't this negate your premise that is all of God and nothing of man?

    Again, all of these reasons go back to man, and negate the premise of your statement that such truths are all of God.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    satan is the smartest created being, he does not agree with God, so whats the OP point?
     
  10. Skandelon

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    I find responses to threads like this both amusing and tiresome at the same time. Amusing because this is a soteriological debate forum which is created for the very purpose of such topics and tiresome because no one is forcing you to come here and read them, much less respond with replies that LITERALLY bring nothing to the discussion, new or otherwise.
     
  11. preacher4truth

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    I share the same sentiments as well.
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    I'm with you on all the above, although right now I cannot prove him to be the smartest created being.

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :wavey:
     
  13. Skandelon

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    Funny you say that because the determinist would suggest that God is just as in control of Satan's doings as His own. Another great example of Calvinist's attempt to subvert any actual level of creaturely freedom, smart or otherwise. Thanks for the reminder!:thumbsup:
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Are you arguing here all the time against calvinism as you see it, or as hypers teach it?

    As I am a moderate one, and much of what you rail against I don't see it in Calvinism, as least as I understand it as regarding Sotierology!
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    Even IF he was created as such, he decided to become the most stupid being, going against God!
     
  16. Skandelon

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    You need to be specific. If you think I've said something that misrepresents Calvinism then quote my actual words and make an argument as to why you feel it is a misrepresentation.

    But, do keep in mind there are many different levels of Calvinistic thought. High Calvinism (sometimes called hyper) from the likes of Pink, Gill and others is different from more moderates such as MacArthur and Sproul for example. You, if I'm not mistaken, are a Amyraldite (4 pointer) which for most Calvinists would disqualify you all together from their camp, so don't be so quick to bring such accusations. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    Or better yet, he was created for such a purpose and intent by Sovereign God.
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    I agree with this as well. Many many strawman arguments have been erected. Add this op to the rest of them. :wavey::thumbsup:
     
  19. jbh28

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    name one...
     
  20. 12strings

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    -I think you are repeating the often used method of stating something that is true of all people, but inserting calvinists to make it appear that they are somehow more prone to this error than others. Consider the following, which while possibly technically true, are misleading in that they (without evidence) single out a specific group and apply some fault to them that actually describes all people:

    a. Non-calvinists can't stand it when obviously smart and well-respected believers are known to be calvinists.

    b. (often heard on BB going both ways) "Calvinist resort to personal attacks instead of debating the topics", or "All calvinist misrepresent their opponents."

    These statements would be more clear and complete if they simply said something like: "PEOPLE don't like it when other people disagree with them." "people of all persuasions tend to misstate their opponents views."

    (of course if we said that, it wouldn't pack much punch in a debate, now would it?)

    I'm going to try to say this kindly: For anyone who did not take the time to read the article, You have written this sentance in a way that the casual reader will assume that Piper in his article somehow attempts to read calvinistic beliefs into chesterton's writings, which is not at all what Piper is doing here at all. I don't see how your description of the article fits the actual content of what Piper says.
     
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