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Featured Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, May 19, 2012.

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  1. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    And Pft, is this the sort of thing you're talking about?:

    From the preface of Calvin and Beza's Bible de Genève:
     
  2. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    And your OP was an attempt at a soteriological debate?
     
  3. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    One of the key foundational aspects of any kind of debate is to be able to state both sides dispassionately and fairly.

    "It seems" is a poor beginning for any worthwhile debate. Another "D" word comes to mind - diatribe.
     
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    More of an observation of those who have debated these points throughout history and the ways in which we respond to them today. There have been many such threads here, but I'm sure you rebuked all the Calvinistic leaning thread starters for doing the same, right? Oops, maybe not. :tongue3:
     
  5. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    So this blogger you cite does exactly what you claim in the OP...but Piper, in his article does not. he does exactly the opposite.

    This also does not change the fact that both cals and non-cals don't like being disagreed with by smart people.
     
  6. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    This statement is NO MORE TRUE than the corrolary that non-calvinists hate when knowledgable christians disagree with them. That's the main point I'm trying to get accross here.

    25%? where does that number come from?


    AGREED (With the bolded part).

    Disagree somewhat with the second part, simply because I have heard many calvinists quote these men favorably (piper included).

    [/QUOTE]

    Other than Icon, who else has taken this stance. (and despite not wanting to read Lewis, I'm not sure Icon would even take this stance...Lewis has some other theological problems besides simply rejecting predestination. )
     
  7. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Ask Iconoclast. He knows me in my role as a moderator on another board. I have little patience for Calvinists and neo-Calvinists who use strawman arguments or who posit ridiculous ideas. Serious scholarship includes policing one's own.
     
  8. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    Link 1: Piper Likes CS Lewis...

    http://theresurgence.com/2010/02/04/why-has-c-s-lewis-influenced-john-piper-so-much

    Link 2: Piper learns from authors he disagrees with:

     
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    12strings and Herald, I will say I have seen no evidence from either of you which would suggest your unwillingness to learn from a non-Calvinistic believer. No more so than my unwillingness to learn from Calvinistic ones. (One look at my library or my podcast list is evidence of this)

    The OP was poorly worded, I admit, but the intent behind it was a commentary on a common reaction I've noticed when Calvinists learn that a smart notable believer was a non-Calvinist. You can see it on the blog I referenced earlier and we've seen some evidence of it here.

    It just seems to baffle, or surprise Calvinists to stumble across an intelligent believer who knows what they believe about election, predestination and soteriology but doesn't align with the Calvinistic conclusions, especially if that believer places a high value on God's sovereignty and the praise of His glorious grace.

    That being said, they are probably baffled because they haven't been exposed to such very often in our modern culture. Arminianism is often equated with the seeker sensitive namby pamby 'joel osteen' type of christianity that simply ignores the complex issues such as predestination. I suspect there would be a lot smaller resurgence of young people becoming Calvinistic if they were more exposed to such scholarship.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    In his "HUMBLE OPINION" ....yea right! Humble my arse & as for opinion, you do know what opinions are like dont you?

    I agree with P4T, if you can both slander & call your Brethren what you suggest, from your opinion, is merely reprehensible.
     
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    So what is the conclusion here? That Calvinists chuckle but non-Cals can only giggle?
     
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Actually Baptist4life, because of the rebellion all mankind was destined for hell. But God by His Limitless Grace provided redemption for His chosen ones!
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    That is two of us!:thumbsup::wavey::laugh:
     
  14. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Well, I'm not sure you could rightly call that grace "limitless," for even your statement concluded it is limited to his 'chosen ones.' :tear:
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    As well as all who come to Him in faith.:thumbsup:
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I can even if you can't! I know myself, not as completely as God does! But seeing how many "Stiff Necked" Baptists there are His Grace would have to be without limit.
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    And the elect are justified by Faith!
     
  18. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Breathe...........
    Easy there trigger, no one was implying you were lost or questioning your salvation. You mistook my meaning. I think you wanted to mistake my meaning...but you mis-read my intent anyway.

    I do know this:

    The above is not likely true, it's a dialectic device that I don't take seriously when spoken in the manner in which you spoke it. Don't kid yourself like that.
     
    #58 HeirofSalvation, May 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2012
  19. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    It is a statement of opinion only...it is merely a general observation that Skan has made...I have also made a similar observation. Many non-Cals feel this way. It may not be objectively true, we would all admit as much. But (generally speaking) many non-Cals honestly perceive many Cals as being this way.

    I pulled that out of thin air....it is merely a statement of personal observation.

    Fair enough: Again, it was a personal observation and opinion and no more, that the OP is about.

    If you mean to suggest that Lewis was in fact a Universalist, he wasn't. Although many of his writings do betray his difficulty in dealing with the damnation of the heathen. A cursory or shallow reading of some of his work might leave the impression that he was, especially "The Great Divorce". It was not easy for him to wrap his head around. He was not, and he decicedly regularly reminds you in his works that he was not a Theologian. But he was not ultimately a Universalist.
     
    #59 HeirofSalvation, May 19, 2012
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No...not at all.....not when properly understood:type:
     
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