Calvinists- How many points?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Winman, Feb 18, 2011.

?

How many points of TULIP do you hold to?

  1. I hold to all five points of TULIP

    25 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. I reject or have issues with T- Total Depravity

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. I reject or have issues with U- Unconditional Election

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  4. I reject or have issues with L- Limited Atonement

    4 vote(s)
    11.4%
  5. I reject or have issues with I- Irresistable Grace

    4 vote(s)
    11.4%
  6. I reject or have issues with P- Perseverance of the Saints

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  7. I reject or have issues with two or more points- Please identify which points

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  8. Other- Please explain

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Winman

    Winman
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    This is just a simple survey for you Calvinists, whether you hold to all five points of TULIP or less. I have been curious about which points those who are not five pointers most reject or have some issues or problems with. If you would like to explain why, that would be great.

    You can also make more than one selection.
     
    #1 Winman, Feb 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2011
  2. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
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    I hold to all five points.

    :jesus:
     
  3. Winman

    Winman
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    Thank you for your response. I hope this is a suitable survey, I know oftentimes folks do not like how choices are worded. I hope these choices are worded well.
     
  4. jbh28

    jbh28
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    I thought about being mean and selecting all of them :D...but I was nice.


    Do I hold to all 5 points? Yes, but let me clarify how I look at them.

    Total Depravity
    1. Sin has affected every man and every part of man is affected. Man has the ability to do seemingly good things. We are made in the image of God. That image can be reflected even in an unsaved person. However, the unsaved person never does this to please God. He never seeks after God. Why? Because he has no desire to do so. Man sins because he chooses to sin. We choose based on our desires. We are born with a sinful nature.

    Unconditional Election
    2. God has elected certain individuals for salvation. This election is not based on anything man has done. It is not based on who would be good or bad, smart or dumb. You don't get saved because of your good sense. You don't get saved because you are smarter than the other guy. You get saved because of a work God does in your heart. No one gets saved without the drawing of God. He must be changed from the inside out. Salvation is conditional while election is unconditional. Regeneration happens at salvation with faith and repentance. You’re not regenerated without faith. You don't have faith without regeneration. It's all part of salvation.

    Limited Atonement
    3. The death of Christ on the cross was sufficient to save every man. Every sin ever committed has had the payment that is required paid. If everyone was saved, nothing more would have had to be done by Jesus. It is sufficient for all. This doesn't mean that everyone will be saved. Only those whose faith is in Jesus Christ can be saved. Only these will have their sins effectually paid for. Sufficient for all, efficient for the elect.

    Irresistible Grace
    4. Those that are chosen will come to him. They will do this willingly. Nobody is forced into salvation. In addition, nobody is forced into hell. Whosoever will may come. God will accept anybody that puts their faith in Jesus Christ. He will reject no one that truly puts their faith in Jesus. People can resists the Holy Spirit. Non-elect people do this their entire lives. The elect can do(and often do) resist for a time, but will come to Him.

    Perseverance of the Saints
    5. Those that are born again will be eternally saved. Jesus will lose no one. All that come will never be cast away. They will endure to the end, not because of their own power, but because Jesus Christ will keep us.
     
    #4 jbh28, Feb 18, 2011
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  5. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
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    Works for me. My choice was certainly included in the list.
     
  6. Ruiz

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    Five points is not true Calvinism, they are just points addressing some points of Arminianism. Thus, I hold to 5 points but I also hold to many more.
     
  7. Baptist4life

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    I continue to be totally blown away by all the "Baptists" on here who are Calvinists. Calvinism is an absolutely ridiculous belief that I've never seen taught in all my 59 years of being in Baptist churches. Never.
     
  8. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Once I said in jest that I was a seven-point Calvinist. It was a joke.

    But four or five people came to me and asked what the other two points were.

    So, what are the others you hold to? You have my curiosity up.
     
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    A minimum of 5 points. The basic principle of calvinism is the absolute sovereignty of God, and all theology is subject to this.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. moral necessity

    moral necessity
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    Good poll!

    I agree with the 5 points. I'll venture to say that "limited atonement" will be the one that is rejected the most.
     
  11. Ruiz

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    Calvinism has been taught (and was the majority) in most of Baptist history. I had a non-Calvinistic history teacher in Seminary. One kid talked about how Baptists were not Calvinists. He said, for the vast majority of America, if you are Baptist your roots came from Calvinism. Now, he argued against Calvinism, but he recognized the history of Calvinism in Baptist circles.
     
    #11 Ruiz, Feb 18, 2011
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  12. Ruiz

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    Tom,

    Immediately, most people would respond by mentioning the 5 Solas of the Reformation (Scripture Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, for the Glory of God alone). These are not enough either. The holiness of God may be a beginning point of the "other" doctrines which I believe is infused with a specifically Calvinistic Doctrine. Joel Beeke has written a great book on Calvinism entitled, "Living for God's Glory: An Introduction to Calvinism." This is the best summarization of the general worldview of Calvinism.
     
  13. jbh28

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    Yes, in the early parts of Baptist history, you have the general baptists and the particular baptists. The general baptists...well, they went away from baptists. The particular baptists split (over issues like invitations in church) and that's where we get baptists today. to say that Calvinism has nothing to do with baptist is just ignoring facts. That doesn't make Calvinism correct(the Bible does that :) lol) but it is a fact of history.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    you sound like somebody who grew up in a part of the world where everybody wore G-strings, and couldn't believe it when he saw somebody wearing something longer. :laugh:
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Yea, living 59 years of your life clueless.... Reminds me of Dean Wormer's comment to one of the students:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM

    :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  16. Baptist4life

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    That entire comment makes no sense at all. I grew up in Kentucky and Ohio, and I cannot believe that Calvinism is a Baptist doctrine. I believe in "whosoever will" not in "only those I chose".
     
  17. Ruiz

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    It is not a Baptist Doctrine? I would encourage you to read the London Baptist Confession written in 1689. This doctrinal statement is one of the earliest Baptist statements and is clearly Calvinistic. The first two Baptist associations in America were the Philadelphia Baptist Association and Charleston Baptist Association. Both held to Calvinistic doctrine.

    While your experience may differ, your experience is limited in scope and time. Traditionally, Calvinistic Baptists have been the majority.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Sure it makes sense, although said in jest.
    Calvinism/Doctrine of Grace has been around longer than your grandaddy's granddaddy here in the States.
    It's your statement that doesn't make sense, assuming that you're more than 59 years old and have been to many Baptist churches, if by many you meant many, unless those churches have mostly been the "fellowship" types, you know, like the Bible Baptist fellowship, or some other type, where the fellowship is determined by the doctrine you hold to.

    Also, what is a Baptist doctrine ?
    There are a lot of things Baptists don't agree about.
     
  19. Old Union Brother

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    Amen, to that. Hang around here long enough and you find that out pretty quickly! :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  20. Robert Snow

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    Biblical error is still error no matter how long it has infected the church. It took a long time for the church to rid itself of this destructive belief. However, in today's lazy, self-serving society, Calvinism fits right in! No wonder it has reinfected the church.
     
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