CALVINISTS, please answer this question.

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Skandelon, Dec 24, 2004.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    I've asked this before in other ways, but I'm still trying to get to the logical consistancy of your position:

    Here is my question:

    Are all of God's elect able to be Calvinistic?

    If so, why aren't they?

    If not, why not?
     
  2. Bro. James

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    Answer: no.

    God' elect were elected long before John Calvin was born--in fact from before the foundation of the world.

    Following men leads one into a ditch.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  3. Monergist

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    Only by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
     
  4. Timtoolman

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    Reaching over to take Bro. James's shovel away! [​IMG]
     
  5. johnp.

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    Hello Skandelon.

    I think you might be misunderstanding Calvinist Theology. We would say that we are what we are by the grace of God.
    So they are able if they are blessed in this way and unable if not so blessed in this way. We should thank the Lord for the good and the bad.

    We could all be in unison if God so wished. That we are not is an act of God.

    It must be for His glory and the good of His sheep.
    Speculation can be fun. I think He wants us to talk together and learn how to love the unlovely, the Arminians, who I thank God for. :cool:

    johnp.
     
  6. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    So, I hear you saying "no" its not possible.

    Next question.

    Are we, non-Calvinists, going to be held accoutable for our error? If so, why
     
  7. Southern

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    Skandelon,
    God has promised to bring His people to salvation which "will" one day result in and include a correct theology and understanding of His person. But this is "down the road"so to speak. God has not promised believers perfection in their understanding of the scriptures in this life. Those who are "predestined"(Rom. 8:29) will have their understanding made right but not until "glorification" (Rom. 8:29). It is God who works all these things after His own purpose and will (Eph. 1:11) and owes perfect understanding to no one but is given by His grace.

    [ December 25, 2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Southern ]
     
  8. prophecynut

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    Absolutely not.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Since your error is a contradiction of God's revealed truth, yes, you will be held accountable for it because you are responsible just like everyone else is. The unbelievers will be held responsible too. Remember that man is always responsible for God. His inability is the fault only of his own sinfulness. He is kept back by nothing else. Man's failure to believe God's revealed truth, no matter what area it is in, is the same.

    What the ramifications of that failure are we do not know.
     
  10. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello prophecynut.

    All error is sin and must be accounted for. Those in Christ have had their sins paid for. Those outside of Christ must pay the penalty of sin themselves.
    The fact that God determines all things does not mean we are not held accountable for our sin. He is able to correct us at any time.

    Arminians suffer loss on a continuing basis through this lack of belief in the all sufficiency of the atonement and the everlasting love God has for those He chose. They miss out on knowing God better. As He says He is not what we think is fair. A Sovereign God who is Sovereign. A Saviour God that saves.

    If Jesus died for your sins then there is no judgement to come. If Jesus died for your sins then you are cared for by our Father God. What happens to His Children He is responsible for! He teaches us. This means we as Calvinists can relax now in the knowledge that we are not the finished product. We know we are in continual error and we know we have escaped judgement. If God is for us who can be against us? All things work to our good.

    johnp.
     
  11. prophecynut

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    2 Cor. 5:10 NIV
    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

    The good or bad things judged will have originated
    from man's heart and not from the lack of understanding. The Greek for "bad" is phaulon or "worthless" deeds issuing from faith, and not unintentional misinterpretations of the Word.

    As 1 Cor. 4:5b says: "He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts . At that time (Judgment Seat) each will receive his praise from God.
     
  12. johnp.

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    Either the payment for sin had been paid or it was not. Those that have their sins forgiven have had their sins forgiven. We do not come into a judgement.
    We do not come into any judgement because we have had our sins forgiven.

    Modification of your understanding of 2 Cor 5:10 may be needed. You cannot really believe there is any good in you do you? Something that you could do that would not sentence you to death for falling short of?
    No charge can be brought against me. My debt has been paid. My righteousness is that of Christ Himself, will He judge Himself? I will not stand in court if no charge is laid against Him. I believe He died for my sins therefore I have nothing to answer for.

    johnp.
     
  13. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Either the payment for sin had been paid or it was not. Those that have their sins forgiven have had their sins forgiven. We do not come into a judgement.
    We do not come into any judgement because we have had our sins forgiven.

    Modification of your understanding of 2 Cor 5:10 may be needed. You cannot really believe there is any good in you do you? Something that you could do that would not sentence you to death for falling short of?
    No charge can be brought against me. My debt has been paid. My righteousness is that of Christ Himself, will He judge Himself? I will not stand in court if no charge is laid against Him. I believe He died for my sins therefore I have nothing to answer for.

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I thought this verse might help in this discussion:

    John 12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not *believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

    The man doesn't seem to be judged by the law for sins previously committed as much as he is judged by Christ's word's of reconcilation for their rejection of those words.

    Could it be that Christ did atone for all sin so that all could be reconciled?

    Could it be that the judgement is not about sin, which has been atoned, and the law, which has been fulfilled, but instead about being reconciled to God through faith in Christ's work of atonment and fulfilment.

    Could it be that the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is the unpardonable sin because everyone who rejects the words of reconcilation brought to us by the Holy Spirit as not being true will not be pardoned. Could it be that is the only sin left unpardoned?
     
  14. Skandelon

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    I assume you agree with the rest, that its not possible for all elect to become Calvinistic?

    But, with non-believers you can "blame" their "inability" on their nature which they justly earned through the federal headship of Adam and thus are justly punished. But with one who has been regenerated and given a new nature there is no place to justly lay the blame for that inability. In other words, when you deal with regenerated men you lose your scapegoat of federal headship and the fallen nature to blame for moral inability. Could you explain how non-Calvinistic believers can be justly punished?
     
  15. whatever

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    I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was atoned for but is left unpardoned? Or do you mean something else?
     
  16. Wes Outwest

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    That's what I've been posting from my first post on the Baptistboard.
     
  17. Skandelon

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    I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was atoned for but is left unpardoned? Or do you mean something else? </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe. Or maybe it was the only sin that wasn't atoned. I'm just exaimining options. Obviously, there is some ambiquity on that subject.
     
  18. Wes Outwest

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    Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is rejection of the Holy Spirit. If one does not believe in God, one will not accept the pleading of the Holy Spirit, but will instead reject it. Jesus tells us in John 3:18 that unbelievers judge themselves and are, because they lack faith, cast into the lake of Fire.
     
  19. Bro. James

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    Pleading of the Holy Spirit??

    Only in the the mind of Jacobus Arminius.

    When the Holy Spirit moves it is not resistible. It is not an "oh, please, please, make a commitment to Christ". Look at what happened to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus.

    Beware of "repeat after me " salvation--it is bogus.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  20. Skandelon

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    Somebody should have taught that to Stephen before they killed him:

    He said, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you." (Acts 7:51)
     

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