Calvinsim (?) in Scripture

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Bismarck, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. Bismarck

    Bismarck
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    Act 11:18
    When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted (didomai, G01325) to the Gentiles also the repentance (metanoia, G03341) that leads to life."

    (i) didomai means "to give". It is translated thus 365 out of 413 appearances in the NT.

    (ii) metanoia means a "changed mind" (probably originally "changed knowledge").

    (iii) The Jewish Christians realized that "God has given to the Goyim also the changed mind that leads to life".

    CONCLUSION: God gives, to men, the changed mind that leads to life. Thus, anytime any man acquires a "changed mind" (i.e., "repents"), it is a gift given Graciously by God.



    John 6:28-29
    Therefore they said to him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Yeshua answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom He has sent."

    QUESTION: Does this mean that "belief" is not any work that we work or do, but rather solely the work of YHWH-God?



    John 8:42-47
    Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

    Matthew 22:32
    'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB '? [Ex 3:6] He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

    1 Corinthians 1:18
    For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    CONCLUSION: YHWH-God is the God and Father only "of the living", including the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matt 22:32). The "living" are those being "saved" (1 Cor 1:18).

    Insofar as the "saved" (elect) have been fore-ordinated (pre-destinated) since Creation (Rev 13:8, 17:8), it follows that everyone else (the un-elect) have been doomed (un-saved) to "perish" (1 Cor 1:18) since Creation.

    Note: No mortal man will ever know whether (or not) his (or any other's) name is written in the Book of Life until the Last Day at the end of time. Rather, all go through their whole lives with that question mark (?) hanging over their souls.


    We'll know for the first time
    If we're evil or Divine
    We're the last in line
    We're the last in line
    Dio, Last in Line
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
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    No Question Mark Is Needed

    Don't you have the assurance of your salvation ?

    Read John 20:31 : But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ , the Son of God , and that by believing you may have life in his name .

    Read 1 John 5:13 : I write these things to who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have etewrnal life .

    If you are a believer in Christ ( and all which that entails ) you are saved , elect and bound for glory . Your name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life . A true believer is elect . A real Christian does not become elect .

    The Scripture asks us to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith ( see 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) . We are also enjoined to make our calling and election sure . ( see 2 Peter 1:10 ) .

    No such question mark need hang over the soul of any authentic Christian .
     
  3. Bismarck

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    Rom 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to a changed mind (metanoia, G03341, "repentance")?​

    It is God's kindness (chrestos, G05545; seemingly related to charis, G05485, "grace") that "leads you to a changed mind" (repentance).

    God is the actor, you are the recipient.


    Eph 4:32
    Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God also has forgiven you in Christ.

    Being "in Christ" means being a member of the fore-ordinated elect, written into the Book of Life since Creation. To be such a member, God "forgives" you (Eph 4:32). The Greek word is charizomai (G05483) related to charis (G05485), "grace".

    It is by God's gracious forgiveness that you are saved.

    It is by God's gracious forgiveness that you were written into the Book of Life at Creation.

    Since that involved the "foreknowledge" of God, it would seem that God foreknew (foresaw) the Fall of Man, sin, as well as your sins in particular — and, even so, graciously forgave you your death-deserving trespasses.
     
  4. Bismarck

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    It certainly seems that True Believers do not become elect in this life — rather, they were already elected at Creation.
     
  5. David Lamb

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    True, (though I would say it was before Creation), but you tantalizingly, you have not answered the question asked by Rippon:

    Don't you have the assurance of your salvation?

    Your note at the end of the OP was:

    No mortal man will ever know whether (or not) his (or any other's) name is written in the Book of Life until the Last Day at the end of time. Rather, all go through their whole lives with that question mark (?) hanging over their souls.

    I strongly suspect that it was that note which prompted Rippon's question. How can you reconcile such an idea with the verses Rippon quoted? Did the apostles and other believers of whom we read in the New Testament give the slightest idea that they were not sure that they were saved?
     
  6. Jarthur001

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    No question mark here. I know for I know my God, my God that Saved me, also keeps me.
     
  7. Martin

    Martin
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    ==That is unBiblical. The Bible is clear that true believers can have full assurance of their salvation.

    What did Peter urge his readers to do? He urged them to "be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you" (2Pet 1:10). If you could not be certain, if you could not be sure, then Peter's advice is misleading. However, since the Holy Spirit inspired Peter's writings, his advice is not misleading. A believer can have full assurance of his salvation. You can be sure you are one of the elect. Throughout his letters the Apostle John gives people several ways they can know for sure that they are truly saved. In chapter 5 of his first letter the Apostle states "these things I have written to you who believe in the Name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1Jn 5:13). If we truly believe in Jesus, we can know that we have eternal life. The Apostle Paul was certain about his salvation. Notice that he said that "the Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly Kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen." (2Tim 4:18). The Scriptures do not teach that we cannot be sure. If you are not sure you need to make sure.


     
  8. skypair

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    EXCELLENT start! "Conversion" is what it is called, BTW.



    John 6:28-29
    Therefore they said to him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Yeshua answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom He has sent."

    QUESTION: Does this mean that "belief" is not any work that we work or do, but rather solely the work of YHWH-God?

    CONCLUSION:...Note: No mortal man will ever know whether (or not) his (or any other's) name is written in the Book of Life until the Last Day at the end of time. Rather, all go through their whole lives with that question mark (?) hanging over their souls.[/quote] No, wrong conclusion. You just said that if we have a change of heart, we are saved. How do you come back on that and say that we can't know?

    skypair
     
  9. Bismarck

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    The Puritans of Colonial New England were always searching for signs to assure them they were saved. If they went through their whole lives in fear and uncertainty, were they wrong in their interpretations of Scripture?
     
  10. David Lamb

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    If the Puritans of Colonial New England actually spent their whole Christ lives wondering if they were saved or not, then I would say that they were wrong. 1 John 5.13 says:

    These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

    I cannot see how that could possibly be interpreted as meaning something such as:

    These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, but you still will not know whether you have eternal life, indeed I, John, cannot say that I know I have eternal life.

    Although what earlier Christians said and believed is important, different groups of them believed different things, so we must look to the Word of God. Yes, we will still disagree, as our forebears did, because none of us can have a perfect knowledge of the bible in this life, but because it is God's Word, it is a far more reliable source than any group of mortals, be they Puritans of Colonial New England or anyone else.
     
  11. Martin

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    ==As a person who spends a lot of time studying 17th century New England History, I would say they were wrong. Their views on these matters lead to some interesting problems. In my opinion, this is one of the reasons they had to institute the Halfway Covenant. When a person makes salvation so uncertain, so difficult, they are not only going against Scripture they are also pushing people away from the Gospel with their legalism. If that continues long enough, that local church will die due to a lack of members or it will compromise in order to gain new members. And that is exactly what they did in my opinion, they compromised. I would also point out that not all New England puritans agreed with the legalistic system they set up. One historian of the period, David Hall, even suggests that this uncertain system was one of the causes behind the witch movement.
     
    #11 Martin, Sep 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2007
  12. AAA

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    GREAT post!
     

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