Can a BAC fall away and then return to the faith?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    1 John 1 NKJV
    7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with
    one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
    to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

    In view of this 1 John invitation for believers to repent of their sins …
    so they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness with the precious blood of Jesus,
    I am wondering about the passages below …


    Hebrews 6 NKJV
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have
    tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again
    for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears
    herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
    8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed,
    whose end is to be burned.
    IMO, reasonable people agree that this is speaking of BACs …
    because only BACs have repented and become partakers of the Holy Spirit.

    “… such people can deliberately and knowingly abandon their faith.
    And if they do that – if they fall away – there is no hope for them.
    They cannot be brought back to repentance. What does it mean here to fall away?
    … to reject God’s light after having seen it; to reject Christ after having received
    Christ’s gifts and blessings.”
    “But God will not touch them; He will not bring to repentance those who
    have tasted His blessings and then deliberately and knowingly rejected Him.” (*)


    2 Peter 2 NKJV
    20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge
    of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome,
    the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
    21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
    than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns
    to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
    IMO, reasonable people agree that this is speaking of BACs …
    because they escaped the pollutions (sins) of the world through the Lord Jesus.
    This passage is warning about false teachers who are corrupting new BACs.

    “Judgment wil be especially severe for those who have once known the way
    of righteousness, but then turn their backs on the sacred command –
    that is, Christ’s commandments (Heb 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb 10:26-29).
    … a man can be cleaned momentarily from his sin; but if he doesn’t receive
    a new spiritual nature, he will soon go back to his sin … Their inner nature has
    not been transformed; they cannot fully free themselves from their old ways.” (*)

    The result … their end IS worse than their end WAS before being born-again.
    I.E. it would have been better for them never to have been born-again.


    Hebrews 10 NKJV
    26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
    there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
    ,
    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment,
    and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
    28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy
    on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
    29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy
    who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant
    by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
    And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    IMO, reasonable people agree that this is speaking of BACs …
    because they have received the knowledge of the truth,
    and they have taken advantage of Jesus sacrifice for their sins.

    “… the meaning of the Greek text is “keep on sinning”. The writer is talking
    about a person who knowingly continues in sin without repentance.”
    “If we do all this (in v.29), we have, in fact, completely given up our faith
    in Christ. And if we give up our faith in Christ, our salvation is lost.”
    “If after having ‘accepted’ Christ we then reject Him, we shall receive
    not only physical death but also spiritual death for all eternity.”
    “This verse (v.31) … is written primarily for those who first ‘believe’ and
    then later fall away … God shows no love or mercy to those who deliberately
    keep sinning against Him and who persist in rejecting His Son Jesus.” (*)


    In view of the 3 passages above, 1 John 1:7-10 must be referring to
    committing small sins and/or wandering briefly out of God’s will.


    (*) The Applied New Testament Commentary, Thomas Hale, Chariot Victor Publishing
    [/FONT]

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  2. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi E7 - I would like to suggest a view of these passages, esp. Hebrews 6:4, from John Gill's commentary. I've for some time now admired your labors and manner of faithfulness to God's Word in pursuit of truth and pray His continuing guidance in your searches!

    http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/hebrews/gill/hebrews6.htm

    God's blessings to your Family!
     
  3. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Many thanks for your encouragement ... God's best to you and yours, also!
    .
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    Hebrews was written to tell christians that they need to stand firm for jesus, as he brought in a New and better Covenant than God brought thru Moses, and that Chapter 6 begins describing those amiong them who merely professed salvation, but when pressure hit them, reverted back to Judaism and their "true colors"... other group described were the ones Apsotle were sur eof were really saved and would stand in the end for jesus!
     
  5. steaver

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    I am encouraged in your new found willingness to allow scripture to interpret the scripture. You have been dead set against this approach in the past. Keep up the study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth :wavey:
     
  6. evangelist-7

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    [​IMG] Bonkers City!

    This time, instead of basically only using Scripture ...
    I included a lot of commentary written by a Spirit-filled missionary.

    And, predictably, Stevie Wonder produces this wonder of a statement.

    .
     
  7. steaver

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    You didn't want other bible verses presented before to help with the understanding. :thumbsup:
     
  8. steaver

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    It is quite a bit to work through. I see some presumptuous error in your own commentary, probably because of you looking at these passages with the presumption that eternal security is a false doctrine. You last comment, about "small sins", well, just one sin whether seen as small by human standards or not is enough to condemn a person to hell before a Holy God. Tis why Jesus went to the cross and has imputed righteousness into those who have called upon His name for salvation. Praise Him! Grace Grace, Marvelous Grace! :jesus:
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Romans 11 "HE is able to restore them AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"

    Same thing happens in 1Cor 5 and then 2Cor 7.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. steaver

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    There ya go E7 - you see it's not impossible like Hebrews says....
     
  11. BobRyan

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    As you know - I don't believe in the "either-or" method of ripture that some on this board prefer. (either this text is true or that one is so let's just ignore one).

    Rather I believe in using "both and" model. 1John 5 and Matt 12 talk about the unpardonable sin - from which there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 6 has that as well.

    But in Romans 11 and in 1Cor 5 linked to 2Cor 7 (as well as Ezek 18) we see examples of the saved that have not committed the unpardonable sin - and yet become lost - and later have an opportunity to be saved "again".

    Funny thing about free will - it gets into some of those Bible scenarios.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. steaver

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    Wonderful! Now you can show us how to apply each one of these truths....

    1John1:10 - "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us".

    1John3:9 - "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
     
  13. evangelist-7

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    Are these situations of the same gravity as those in Hebrews?
    Or, are you calling out the Hebrews verses as bogus because they don't correlate with the rest of Scripture?

    .
     
  14. BobRyan

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    My answer is that both are correct "both and".

    Hebrews 6, and Matt 12 and 1John 5 are all talking about the same thing - the unpardonable sin. But in the case of Heb 6 it is specifically speaking to the case of the unpardonable sin when commited by a born again saint - who then is severed from Christ and has no way back.

    However in Romans 11 it is not the unpardonable sin - yet it is the risk of falling away and it is the case of those who having fallen into unbelief are still open to the Gospel promise of being "grafted in again" - just as happened in the 1Cor 5 - 2Cor 7 example where a church member falls into sin - is expelled but eventually repents and comes back to faith.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. steaver

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    Waiting for your wisdom BobRyan..........
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    How about this for evangelist-7 also?
    For it is [d]impossible that they which were once lightened, and have [e]tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the holy Ghost,

    5 And have tasted of the good word of God, and of the powers of the world to come,

    6 If they fall away, should be renewed again by repentance: seeing they [f]crucify again to themselves the Son of God, and make a mock of him.

    Hebrews 6:4-6
    geneva Bible
     
  17. steaver

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    Have you got that exegesis done yet?
     

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