CAn A catholic Agree with me That we aLL are saints to god as Much As mary/Apostles?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    To take it a step further...

    iF one is in Christ jesus, the father sees us exactly as his Son Jesus in a rightiousness sense?
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

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    Yes. All those in Christ are saints. However, to understand the Catholic view of "Canonizing" a person as a saint has to do with certainty of Glorification. There are certain people the church is confident about because of their lifestyles and the example they lead in this life that they "certify" are currently Glorified and with Jesus Christ in Heaven. That doesn't mean other people aren't saints. And the RCC realizes there are many saints in heaven they haven't "canonized".
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    Are all believers in Yeshua seen as being saints though, as the Bible declares we ALL are such right here and now!
     
  4. Thinkingstuff

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    I don't disagree with that at all. As long as they all remain in Christ. But that is a different issue with the view of "Canonizing someone." You're right all those who believe and live in Christ are saints. However "Canonization" is a recognition of certain people whose lives certify their faithfulness all the way to the point of death and that person's "glorification". But that doesn't deminish all the people who are currently saints and haven't been canonized.
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    In regard to spiritual union with Christ it is an INTERNAL CREATIVE act by God and man cannot participate in creating anything inside him and neither can he UNCREATE what God has created - Eph. 2:10 - that is precisely why it is called "EVERLASTING" life rather than temporal or conditional life.
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    isn't it true though that per RCC ONLY those 'certified being saints"assurred of immediategoing to heaven at death, rest headed for purgeotory instead? that its NOT really true all belivers seens as being saints now?
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

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    No that is not necissarily true. Only those Saint's that they are certain about do they make any claim for I'm certain there are many saints that aren't recognized. Purgatory has to do with sanctification.
     
  8. Moriah

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    It is wicked and evil what the Catholics do with their so-called Saints. They dig up the “Saints” dead decayed bodies, and then they put the decayed remains in glass caskets for the pope, priests, and members of the Catholic Church to worship the dead remains. They kiss them, pray to them, they bow and kneel to them. This grotesque macabre practice appears no different from any satanic type of practice.
     
    #8 Moriah, Jul 18, 2012
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  9. The Biblicist

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    Rediculous! How can Rome know the certainity about the INTERNAL state of any person beause it is the HEART that determines the motive for all that is seen and heard by them. If their HEART is wrong then all their righteousness are literally sin before God! Who can know the difference but God! The RCC saint program is rediculous!
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

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    You think so. Funny how the bible speaks of a dead soldier thrown on the skeleton of the prophet and it was raised to life immediately 2 Kings 13:20-21. Its clear the sanctity of this mans life had some affect on his physical body. That the power of God raised another man to life the moment his body touched this saints dead body. Or don't you believe in an actual physical resurrection?
     
  11. Thinkingstuff

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    Well, the same way we know Paul is in heaven, or Peter, or a multitude of other people. How do you know they are in heaven? Oh right they have a guarantee by their intellectual assent in Jesus Christ. So this should be no problem for you because once someone has faith they are always saved. And if they are seperated for a time from their physical bodies then they are with the Lord. So again. It should be no problem for you to understand.
     
  12. saturneptune

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    They have a secret laboratory and have perfected a salvation detector. You wave it across the person, green for saved, red for the Lake of Fire, and yellow for Purgatory.
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

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    :laugh:..........................
     
  14. Moriah

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    The skeleton of the dead prophet was not put in a class casket to be
    venerated. God never tells anyone to do that
    It is an evil practice what the Catholic do.
    Just look at the pictures of this grotesque and macabre act.

    http://christiandefenseofthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/catholic-influence-demolished-part-2-pictures/
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    What the bible teaches is that ALL believers in jesus are seen by God as being Saints right here and now in this life, that I am just as much of one as peter/paul/John!

    And there is NO seperate classes of christians, as some strive here well enough to get rewarded for sainthood and go straight to heaven , while rest christians go to Purgatory before becoming 'saints"
     
  16. WestminsterMan

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    Yes... but it has a built in discriminator so they can tune out certain Protestants.

    WM
     
  17. Walter

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    I believe we find examples of veneration of relics found in the early history of the Church. There is a letter written by the faithful of the Church in Smyrna in the year AD 156 which gives us an account of the death of St. Polycarp, their bishop, who was burned at the stake. Listen to what they did: "We took up the bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy, and to celebrate the birthday (Feast Day) of his martyrdom." The relics of St. Polycarp — the bones and other remains — were buried, and the tomb itself was the "reliquary." We also read that the faithful visited the burial places of the saints and miracles occurred. At the same time (AD 156) we see the development of "feast days" marking the death of the saint, the celebration of Mass at the burial place, and a veneration of the relics.
     
    #17 Walter, Jul 19, 2012
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  18. Yeshua1

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    if the practice/doctrine not found in the Bible, it doesn't matter who said or did what!
     
  19. Walter

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    It matters to me. I believe that most of the Christians who lived in the first century had orthodox beliefs and since many of them were taught by and sat at the foot of the Apostles, they sure are more likely to know how the writers of the New Testament REALLY meant for their writings to be interpreted than you or I and certainly better than modern day Baptists on this board as is evidenced by those on this board who deny the deity of Christ while in the Blessed Mothers womb and say he was not divine until His birth. Wanting to put blinders on to everything said and practiced in the Early Church is a vain thing which has no warrant in Holy Scripture. In fact, I believe it is repugnant to the word of God. Take a look:

    2 Thessalonians 3:6
    And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.
    2 Thessalonians 2:14
    Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle
     
  20. DHK

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    Paul wrote that. Paul died in 67 A.D. Christ died in 29 A.D. Look up the word "tradition" in the RCC Encyclopedia. There is no way possible that these words "tradition" can fit the definition that the RCC Encyclopedia gives it. The word "tradition" here simply means "Biblical truth". It was Biblical truth that Paul had taught to them. It may have been from the written scrolls he had, or it may have been orally, as in preaching, the same kind of preaching that we so often do today in our Baptist churches. That is all it means. It has nothing to do with the Catholic concept of "tradition," and if anything denies it.
     

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