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Can a non-Calvinist explain the doctrine Irresistable Grace to me?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jcjordan, Aug 20, 2008.

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  1. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    It seems to be more a practice of their faith and the meaning of the practice is, as you comment, hidden from them.

    I also find that many of them emphaisize the "teaching" and "discipling" aspects of the Great Commission for the very reason of attaching meaning to their practice/ministry.

    But I could be wrong.

    skypair
     
    #21 skypair, Aug 21, 2008
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Okay,go to the corner of the room.You can come back when you do a lot more reading.Have you ever read any book on Church History for instance?It would do you are world of good to actually examine things for yourself before saying such utterly false things.

    Remember your untruth: Calvinists do not believe in preaching the Gospel.

    You think that since its a done-deal -- the Lord has already determined to save whom He wants -- we can't do a thing about it -- so there's no point in preaching/teaching the Gospel. Does that summarize your thoughts on the matter?If so -- you need to remain in that corner for a rather long time.No recess for you young lady.
     
    #22 Rippon, Aug 21, 2008
  3. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    What does any of this have to do with the OP?
     
    #23 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
  4. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Sorta "irresistibly" comes out. That is why Goldie commented as she did. That was my answer to her.

    skypair
     
    #24 skypair, Aug 21, 2008
  5. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :applause:
     
    #25 ReformedBaptist, Aug 21, 2008
  6. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Your wrong. I have no idea what your talking about. lol
     
    #26 ReformedBaptist, Aug 21, 2008
  7. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    I think both you and Goldie need to back further in this thread and read Allan's responses. He's not a calvinist, yet his responses were well thought out and he seems to have a decent grasp on what calvinists actually believe about Irresistable Grace.
     
    #27 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
  8. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Not interested in what the Bible says about those who resisted the Holy Ghost?
     
    #28 Salamander, Aug 21, 2008
  9. JDale

    JDale Member
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    Hmmm...While goldie is absolutely right about how irresistible grace and limited atonement are necessary as part of the Calvinist system of soteriology, he's not entirely accurate with regard to Calvinists being "uninterested" in preaching the Gospel.

    The fact is, some of the greatest preachers in history have been Calvinists. Some of the greatest Evangelists as well. C.H. Spurgeon was a Calvinist, as was Jonathan Edwards. And don't forget George Whitefield! Whitefield was a "Calvinist Methodist" who essentially became the catalyst for the first Great Awakening in the American Colonies. Yet, he and John Wesley were lifelong friends who prayed for and supported each other.

    Certainly there ARE hyper-Calvinists that believe preaching the Gospel is unnecessary as God knows His elect and will save them irresistibly. The Primitive Baptist Churches in my home state of North Carolina are examples of this belief -- and so are their empty, shut down, old church buildings. Other Calvinists, however, have allowed their soteriology to run smack dab into reality -- if they don't go out LOOKING for the elect, then the "elect" will find their way to Arminian churches! [​IMG]


    JDale
     
    #29 JDale, Aug 21, 2008
  10. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    JDale, thanks for saying this. It means a lot coming from a non-calvinist. I wanted to say the same thing but I knew it would mean nothing coming from me. FYI, I hate the hyper-calvinism that you describe. I think it's heresy. In fact, I would much rather serve and worship with a bunch of semi-pelagians than with a group of hyper-calvinists (rightly defined that is). Since embracing the doctrines of grace, I've become much more fervant for missions. That's not to say that a non-calvinist can't be. My view of missions has changed though. I no longer believe the chief end of missions is for men to be saved but rather for God's name to get glory among the nations. If knowing that just preaching God's Word to the lost brings Him much glory, there is so much pressure taken off in getting results. Oh, but I want people to be saved too...because "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him" (a quote from my favorite preacher). Anyway, thanks for setting the record straight.
     
    #30 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2008
  11. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    I did, too. In fact, I had nothing to add until I see where you are taking the discussion. :thumbs:

    skypair
     
    #31 skypair, Aug 21, 2008
  12. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    How does one distinguish a hyper from not hyper? Is the hyper a 'fundamentalist-literalist Calvinist' and the non-hyper not? Is there some distinction regarding "Irresistible Grace" between them?

    That's kinda what I said, isn't it?

    skypair
     
    #32 skypair, Aug 21, 2008
  13. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    What in the world are you talking about?
     
    #33 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
  14. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Please quote me fully. I took your comments to mean that calvinists didn't care about winning the lost. If that's not what you meant, please explain. For clarification, we do care, but that's not the chief end or aim.
     
    #34 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
  15. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    You said you HATE hyperCalvinists. Sounds complete to me. Is it not "caring about winning the lost" that is the "object of you hate?" Or are there other issues?

    skykpair
     
    #35 skypair, Aug 21, 2008
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Is the "effectual call" as seen in classic calvinism biblical?
     
    #36 TCGreek, Aug 21, 2008
  17. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    First, please show me where I said I hate someone. I also hate it when someone misquotes me.
     
    #37 jcjordan, Aug 21, 2008
  18. JDale

    JDale Member
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    Oh I can answer this. When I was in Seminary, I went to a school (CIU) where most of the students were Calvinists. The few Arminians on the campus had a sort of code identifying the two groups and distinguishing between them.

    The "Calvinists" who affirmed 5 pts. and one or more of the various Confessions, but who could be talked to and reasoned with, we called them "SR's" [Sufficiently Reformed].

    The "Hyper-Calvinists" affirmed the 5 pts., at least one of the various Confessions, but who would not talk to those not Calvinist, nor be reasoned with about...pretty much anything -- these we called "OR's" [Obnoxiously Reformed].

    SO the difference isn't mainly the theology (though some slight shades of difference may exist), the main difference is attitude.

    JDale
     
    #38 JDale, Aug 21, 2008
  19. JDale

    JDale Member
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    No.

    Blessings,

    JDale
     
    #39 JDale, Aug 21, 2008
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Sp, you are being deliberately dishonest.In post #30 jcjordon said he hated the kind of hyper-Calvinism;not hyper-Calvinists that JDale was discussing.There is a big distinction there between the ism and ists. Can you please try to get it right?
     
    #40 Rippon, Aug 25, 2008
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