Can a person be saved and not be in the church?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by BeeBee, Oct 17, 2002.

  1. BeeBee

    BeeBee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can a person be saved and not in the Church?
     
  2. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,074
    Likes Received:
    102
    I'm not sure I understand.

    Do you mean the local church or the universal church?
     
  3. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    I voted no assuming that what is meant by the body of Christ is the universal church. If you mean that can a person be saved and not be a member of a local church then my answer would be yes.
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    If you define church as "Christ's Body" -- as in the poll -- (and you are talking about the true spiritual manifestation of Christ's Body), then no.

    If you are talking about the earthly manifestation of Christ's Body, then certainly, there are believers who have not joined a church for one reason or another.

    I have some friends who just moved to New Hampshire who are having trouble finding a church. Other than the outright cults and "believe nothing" Congregational churches in the area ("Christian Science" (sic) is popular there), they have their choice of an extremely legalistic pastor-ruled non-denom church or a kick your heels and jump for the ceiling charismatic church with health and wealth tendencies, vigorous tongue-speaking and flaky theology.

    They are still looking, but fortunately they will only be there about six months.

    [ October 17, 2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  5. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/scott.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    0
    A person who is saved will *eventually* attach himself to a local body of believers. I do not believe someone can be saved if he/she does not ever connect themselves physically to a local membership.

    [ October 17, 2002, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  6. BeeBee

    BeeBee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    My point is, My pastor does "not" believe in a universal church, and believes that "our" visible church is the only scriptural church. I believe this is absurd. He believes you can be saved and not be in the Church.
     
  7. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/bbb.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your pastor believes your local church is the ONLY chruch where someone can be saved? That just plain dosn't make any sense. Are you sure he dosn't mean baptist chruches in general? There is no way anyone with any common sense could believe one local church could be the only scriptural church. If he really believes that then he would expect every born-again believer in the world to attend his services every Sunday. That would be a big commute for me, and a bigger one for our members in Canada, UK, etc.

    Perhaps he is saying that baptist chruchs which believe the same doctrine are the ony scriptual chruchs. You should talk with him to find out exactly what he believes. If he truly believes that your local chruch is the only chruch then you better start searching for a new chruch. If he believes that then I'm sure he has some other messed up doctrine.

    Bill
     
  8. RomOne16

    RomOne16
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    If the only way he defines "church" is as a local NT church, then I would agree with him that a person can be saved and not be a member of a "church". I however believe in the "church" as in all who are redeemed by Christs blood (not just one local assembly) in addition to the church defined as a local body of believers, and I do not think that one can be saved and not be a member of the body of Christ. Clear as mud right? :D
     
  9. BeeBee

    BeeBee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just to clear things up, my pastor believes that the BMA "Baptist Missionary Association" or missionary baptists are "the" church that Christ started and the only institution. Here is a part from a statement of faith:

    15. The establishment of a visible church by Christ Himself during His personal ministry on earth; and His churches are not now, nor have they ever been, universal or invisible.

    Please comment on this part of the statement of faith;
    Thanks,
    Bobby
     
  10. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course you can have the saving grace of Christ and not be a member of any local assembly. There are many folks who are physically infirm that it would be unwise to immerse who would find it offensive to think otherwise. This could also apply to the mentally incapacitated, infants, and those who for what ever reason haven't chosen to ask for a church home somewhere.

    Now, I do believe that when Christ gives salvation to his children they become part of the universal church. I know that one will stir up a hornet's nest, so I am going to find a bunker.

    Jeff
     
  11. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    Brother Jeff is there is room in your bunker for two?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  12. BeeBee

    BeeBee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you disagree? because this says theres NEVER been a universal church....?
    In Christ,
    Bobby
     
  13. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,074
    Likes Received:
    102
    Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.

    Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

    Galatians 1:13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.

    Ephesians 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

    Ephesians 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

    Esphesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, ...

    Ephesians 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

    Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

    Sounds like a universal church to me.

    (All verses ESV)

    [ October 22, 2002, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  14. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    RSR

    Thanks for that. I knew I liked you for some reason or another.

    Bro. Glen, we are going to have get out those entrenching tools and make a bigger bunker. :D

    Jeff ;)

    [ October 22, 2002, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Weaver ]
     
  15. ichthys

    ichthys
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    The physical church is only a building. The church itself is all believers, sharing Jesus with others. If they have believed, then they are saved.

    How could it be otherwise? :confused:

    Wouldn't your pastor be unsaved when he's at home, or when the church falls into dust and a vacant lot is there? [​IMG]

    And, as probably a side note, unless it's what the pastor means (I'm confused a little because it's so absurd) everybody who is part of The Church needs to be part of A church and trying to grow and learn if at all possible [​IMG] .
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are some Baptist Churches that believe the only God-ordained institutions on earth are local churches. They do not believe salvation is limited to their local assembly. Many do believe the so-called universal church is a man-made concoction. All movements must stem from the local church. No denomination or organization should ordain, commission or otherwise do the work of the church,,,,,mission societies, TV evangelism and the likes.

    These are not my beliefs. I am just saying there are such Baptist Churches.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. g'day mate

    g'day mate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    A couple of thousand years ago there was this thief on a cross and he was never in a church and guess what yep he was saved.
    John
     
  18. Mark-in-Tx

    Mark-in-Tx
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with others who have said that if the questioner is talking about the universal church than the answer is No. Man is saved and made part of the universal church at the same moment. If he was refering to the local church than yes a person may be out of relationship with a local church and still be saved. [​IMG]
     
  19. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/bbb.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Im gonna crawl into the bunker with Brothers Jeff, Glen, and rsr. Of course at this late date Ill probably have to bring my own shovel, and dig my own space.

    Bill
     
  20. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hand me a spade as well..... I`m with you guys.
    anyone speak Welsh in there??????
     

Share This Page

Loading...