can an arminian believe

unless you can clear up the meaning of your quote, please do not ask me to label you as you wish. </font>[/QUOTE]If one does not accept and submit to the teachings of Christianity, one cannot be rightly called a Christian, any more than one who does not abide by the laws of America can be an American. Yes, you can live in America, but if you do not behave as an American, you are not an American. If you behave like an ASIAN your are and will always be ASIAN regardless of where you live! If you behave Like an African, no matter where you live you will always be African!

It is only when you change from being what you were to being what you want to be known as, that you will be respected as what you desire to be.

YES, if you do not adhere to the teachings of Christianity, and do the bidding of Christianity, then YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! Adherence to the teachings is faith! Doing the bidding is Works! Faith without works is dead faith!

My faith is in Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah (the Christ by whom Christians are so called). I am therefore Christian! I do not adhere to the teachings of CALVIN, ARMINIUS, WESLEY, ROME, or any other "ISM". So, none of those labels fit me, and that is why I have asked you to stop using them "against" me. I find them to be derogatorily offensive!

 

Oh, but I have and I do agree with BOTH of them. It is by FAITH ALONE that we are saved, but FAITH without the works that faith spawns, is dead faith, as opposed to a living, vibrant faith demonstrated in works!

 

Excuse me? It is an Apostle of Jesus Christ who is emphasizing WORKS as the evidence of FAITH. Furthermore, it is one's FAITH that Sanctifies the one. FAITH sets the BELIEVER apart from the UNBELIEVER in the condition of Sanctification. If one believes only, and does not follow the Christ, what evidence is there that one believes?

Well, I don't know where Wilcox left off and you took over, but if that is all Wilcox, it is quite clear to me that Wilcox is wrong!

When we come to God we must come AS WE ARE, WE HAVE NO CHOICE! He does not expect us to do anything otherwise. He came to us AS WE ARE, so we must do likewise. He will then work in us to cause us to be what He wants us to be. God's only requirement of man is FAITH! FAITH in Him, Faith in his only Begotten Son and Cooperation with his Holy Spirit. We come as we are in our filthy rags, He washes us in the blood of His only Begotten Son. We bring Him what HE has given us in the creation, He encourages us in how to use it, and He expects us to use it without him pulling the strings, just as he did with His Apostles!

Why is it so difficult to understand that God made us with everything necessary to serve Him, and that He expects us to do so once we come to faith in him. Why is it so difficult to understand that faith is independent of the flesh? Why is it so difficult to understand that FAITH driven Works are pleasing unto God? Remember our works (deeds) will be judged, and rewards will be given for Good works. So, if Good works receive rewards, how is it that God does not accept them?

Renounce Obedience? How foolish must one be to do that? It is disobedience of God that we must renounce.
Renounce baptism? Renounce Sanctification (Faith)? Renounce Grace?

Why would God, who is self-sufficient, who created us in His image, who limited our capabilities by the environment He put us in, find our "self-sufficiency" limited as it is, of any consequence? Did God not make the Apostles somewhat self-sufficient? Able to mingle among those who were not of the same ethnicity, in different cultures, etc. It is not dependency that enables such as that, it is self-sufficiency, you get the message?

Granted, our works have no exchange value in heaven, but what we do here in this natural life if good, will pass through testing in the manner that gold, silver, and precious stones pass through fire. Gold and silver are purified while precious stones retain all their properties. Things we do while here in this life that are bad, do not pass through the fire but rather are consumed by the fire. Even so, the one who offered up those deeds good and bad, is not judged by the fire that tests the deeds, but is judged according to FAITH. Those lacking are "lost" for eternity in the lake of fire. Those 'with' are passed from death unto life everlasting.

 

Neither one of us are renouncing obedience.

It sounded like you were including the bolded works as a condition to salvation, Which of course, can not be. Our works are forordained by God for us to walk in and they will be completed by us but they do not make us a Christian (save us). If they are not completed, it shows we do not have Christ in us and therefore, are not a Christain. So, works are extremely important just not for salvation but because of salvation.

Aren't you getting a little carried away here?

In His Grace
KayDee

 

Sure looks like "obedience" is one of the targets of "renounce". Perhaps just poor phraseology. Paul is not telling the Philippians to renounce he's telling that "HE" counts everything else a loss, NOT that they must renounce everything.

I guess that you have a short memory of me, or you simply do not read my posts. I have never, NOT EVER, posted that one's works have anything to do with salvation. The discussion here is one of being recognized as part of what one claims they are. If you claim to be Christian, then you must behave in a manner consistant with Christianity, and Good Works are part of Christianity. It is FAITH ALONE by which man is saved into eternal life with Jesus.

 

yelsew2

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Look at the second quote in the post above yours. Those are your words. To me, it looks like you added conditions to salvation...if I misunderstood, forgive me.

Absoultely!!! The ands in your previous statment did not lend to this interpretation.

In His Grace
KayDee

 

Let's look at the statement again.

You cannot claim to be Christian, and DO NOTHING CHRISTIAN!

You can claim to be Christian, but if you don't walk the walk, who's gonna believe your talk!

This quote says nothing of Salvation or one's faith condition. Only one's claim!

 

Yelsew2

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

"You cannot be...", "...only then one is a Christian.

The bolded words seem to say otherwise but it sure isn't worth anymore discussion.

In His Grace
KayDee

 

Are you disagreeing with the "emphasis" or the premise?