Can an Evolutionist be a Christian?

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Administrator2, Dec 31, 2001.

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    JOHN WELLS

    The Fallacy of a Christian Who Believes in Evolution
    The Damage Evolution Theory Has Done To Christianity:
    Michael Denton, Australian molecular biologist and physician: “Darwinism broke man’s link with God,” and “set him adrift in the cosmos without purpose. As far as Christianity was concerned, the advent of the theory of evolution. . . was catastrophic. . . . The decline in religious belief can probably be attributed more to the propagation and advocacy by the intellectual and scientific community of the Darwinian version of evolution than any other single factor.” /I]
    British biologist Richard Dawkins said, “Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.”
    William Provine – Cornell University, stated that if “Darwinism is true, then there are five inescapable implications: there’s no evidence for God; there’s no life after ; there’s no absolute foundation for right and wrong; there’s no ultimate meaning for life; and people don’t really have free will.

    The Biblical Account Of The Fall and Redemption:
    God loved us so much that He imparted to us the unique dignity of being free moral agents - creatures with the ability to make choices, to choose either good or . To provide an arena in which to exercise that freedom, God placed one moral restriction on our first ancestors; He forbade them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    The first humans, Adam and Eve, exercised their free choice and chose to do what God had commanded them not to do; thus rejecting His way of life and goodness, opening the world to death and evil. The theological term for this catastrophe is "The Fall."

    Ever since "The Fall," all human beings have yearned, deep in their hearts, for deliverance from sin and guilt. Every religion and worldview offers some form of redemption. For the Buddhist, it's nirvana; for the Jew, it is the atonement of good works; for the Muslin, it may be the perilous walk across the sword of judgment.

    Sin entered the world through Satan (the original source of sin because he wanted to be like God) by way of Adam. But one might ask, didn't Satan trick Eve into eating the fruit first? Yes, but God specifically commanded Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before God created Eve. Adam was responsible to pass on the command to Eve and as her protector and provider, responsible for not intervening and stopping her. So, according to scripture, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” (1 Tim 2:13-14 NIV) Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— (Rom 5:12 NIV)
    According to the inspired word of God in the New Testament, Adam was "formed." He did not evolve.

    So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor 15:45 NIV) This literally says that, first Adam was, and then he became a "living being." Genesis gives more detail:
    "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Gen 2:7 KJV) Then, and of crucial importance, look at the last part of 1 Cor15:45: “the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. Add to that: “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.” (Rom 5:18 NIV)

    The Evolutionist’s Problem With The Fall and Redemption:
    If evolution happened, then death was widespread before man evolved. But if death preceded man and was not a result of Adam’s sin, then sin is a fiction. If sin is a fiction, then we do not need a Savior. We will now look at the rationale of this conclusion.
    Evolutionists who say they are Christians believe that God created the “big bang” and then watched from the sidelines (or possibly had some but limited supernatural influence) as natural chemical processes reacted with the raw materials that God created, and over billions of years these raw materials evolved into all that there is today.
    There is no conceivable way this theory can be tested, so it is an assumption, a philosophy, and by definition, a religious belief!

    Holding to this belief requires:
    The earth must be billions of years old. But by biblical accounts, using the genealogies and allowing for gaps based on cultural practices, the earth is somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 (give or take a little) years old.
    A view that the Genesis account of creation is a myth and . . .
    Adam and Eve were fictional characters
    Belief that the Bible contains errors throughout, because Joshua, 1 Chronicles, Hosea, Luke, Romans, 1Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, and Jude reference Adam and/or Eve in a factual manner.
    Therefore the Bible cannot be trusted!

    For The Christian Who Believes In Evolution, There Is No Savior! Redemption (salvation), that deep, heartfelt yearning that every adult from time eternal has struggled with, can only be obtained one way: Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 NIV) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6 NIV)

    According to evolutionists, living organisms sprung into existence billions of years ago, and then millions of years ago, humans evolved. That means that death has been from the beginning (natural assumption since all life forms die). This creates several problems and contradictions with the Bible:

    Death could not have resulted from sin, unless you believe that the first single cell life form was capable of sinning! The Bible disagrees: Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- (Rom 5:12 NIV)
    So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor 15:45 NIV) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. (Rom 8:2 NIV)
    This is referred to as the “law of sin and death.” It is not referring to spiritual death, as some propose, because not “all men” will die the spiritual (second death). It speaks of the physical death. The evolutionist has a real problem here because his model contradicts, in that animals and Homo sapiens who precededAdam obviously died. In the evolutionist’s model, where did sin come from and what caused it? Death was from the beginning of life.
    For this one man, Adam, brought death to many through his sin. But this other man, Jesus Christ, brought forgiveness to many through God's bountiful gift. (Rom 5:15b NLT) Then we have the critical link between the “first Adam” and the “second Adam.” They must both be real or they must both be mythical. It would be senseless to make so bold a comparison between a myth and a real Savior!

    Another problem for the evolutionist is man’s soul. Where did it come from? "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Gen 2:7 KJV) Some evolutionists will argue that animals have souls also. To that end we must ask, where is the dividing line in living creatures? An amoeba doesn’t have a soul, does it? The truth is that mankind alone has a soul, and therefore there is no link between man and any other creatures, ruling out evolution entirely. God’s inspired statement sums it up: May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT THOU MIGHTEST BE JUSTIFIED IN THY WORDS, AND MIGHTEST PREVAIL WHEN THOU ART JUDGED." (Rom 3:4 NASB)


    SCOTT J

    Thanks for those quotes. I believe that evolution is at its core a philosophy, not a pure science. The antagonism expressed in the second quote is not indicative of a scientist but of an adherent to a philosophy in competition with Christianity.

    Evolutionists are simultaneously amusing and frustrating. They engage in circular reasoning on a massive scale. Once in awhile you can debate with them until you complete the circle...what they have left is that they believe the theory because they choose to. Secular and Christian mathematicians have calculated the probabilities for various elements of the theory as all but impossible. Yet, the evolutionist will cling to that most remote chance, because its alternative is unacceptable. At its core, evolution is nothing more nor less than a set of philosophical assumptions based on one overarching premise: God either does not exist or is irrelevant to science and nature.


    JOHN WELLS

    I couldn't agree more with what you have said. I have no problem understanding why the atheist can think and behave that way however, because for one, they are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit to give them spiritual discernment, and therefore flat out refuse to tread in the realm of the possibility that a supernatural creator exists. Atheists have nothing else to turn to regarding the mystery of the origin of life, so in spite of the probability that a human brain could evolve from a primordial soup is one in 10 to the 600,000th power, which may as well be a zero probability, and a male and female species both had to evolve at the same time, further exasperating the probability, they say supernatural intervention is out of the question, so "it had to have happened in spite of the odds!"

    Now how a theist can subscribe to basically the same "random mutations and chemical reactions over billions of years" pseudo-science completely baffles me. Not to mention that they have to disagree with much of what the Bible clearly says regarding the creation, and man's appearing at the beginning of it. Then there's the problem of the original sin if, in their view of how things happened, sin and death were "from the beginning" which preceded man by millions of years. Anyway, it's great to have your fresh perspective in this ongoing debate.


    CHET

    I want to give a quick reply to both of your last comments. They were word for word of how I feel and I am in such agreement.

    Wells, I have really been wanting to contribute more to this discussion, but time did not allow it this past week. Evolution is nothing more than a "religion" or "philosophy". Like Scott said, there is zero mathematical probability of it happening. And there is no way we can contribute what we have today to nature.

    Col 2:8
    See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
    (NIV)


    CHRIS TEMPLE

    I have not read through the 5 pages on this thread, and have no desire to. But I heard Ken Ham on BBN put it rather succinctly last night.
    He said (rightly) that there are only two camps: belief and unbelief. Either one believes God and His word, or they do not.

    In the Garden, Satan said "Yea, hath God said?", questioning the very word of God. Evolutionists, moderates, liberals and so on ask the same question and commit the same sin. It is the sin of disbelief. To be a believer, one must believe God. There can be varying interpretations, but the word of God MUST be believed. It is that simple.

    Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.


    THE BARBARIAN
    (Ken Hamm) said (rightly) that there are only two camps: belief and unbelief. Either one believes God and His word, or they do not.

    Ken Hamm has spent a career trying to find a way to construe God's word some other way than it is.


    In the Garden, Satan said "Yea, hath God said?", questioning the very word of God. Evolutionists, moderates, liberals and so on ask the same question and commit the same sin.

    That is a breathtakingly egregious slander. Satan is most delighted when he seduces Christians to make this kind of charge against each other.


    It is the sin of disbelief.

    Nonsense.


    To be a believer, one must believe God. There can be varying interpretations, but the word of God MUST be believed. It is that simple.

    It appears that you are upset because most Christians won't believe you. Luke indeed mentions the happiness of us who hear the Word of God (however much trouble we might have keeping it, sometimes) He's talking about the Good News, not creationism. I would pray that all of us avoid assailing our bretheren with false accusations of disbelief. Even the Pope himself admits that there are many Christians with many beleifs, and what counts is accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.


    REV. JOSHUA VILLINES

    Chris,
    What seminary are you studying at? I hope that your attitude means that you are a first-year student who hasn't taken any pastoral care courses.
    There are all different levels of belief and unbelief. I've found many committed fundamentalists to be generally lacking in fatih in the mysterious or the holy - there's something about feeling compelled to define faith in. Rationalist terms that does this. I've also met some profoundly Pietistic and committed liberals.

    The kinds of generalizations you make are amusing, but they are in no way usefule for viable ministry. Nor are they accurate.


    CHRIS TEMPLE

    There are all different levels of belief and unbelief...

    ... Says man and not God. And you did not deal with the issue of unbelieving sin at all.



    ED

    ... Says man and not God.

    I agree with you Chris. People claim to be 'ministers to the world' by compromising the word. I have had many say that to stand firm on the word alienates the world. However, our call is not to bring the world into the church, but to reach out to those who are willing to leave the world and turn to God. No one will be judged based on what the world believes. We will all be judged accourding to God's word and where we stand according to it.
    As you said, there is belief and unbelief. Jesus said, "My sheep will hear My voice". Our call is to present that voice (the Word) and let those who believe come.

    [ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Administrator ]
     

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