Can babies be saved without free will?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. whetstone

    whetstone
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    I have another question for free-willers: How do babies go to heaven when they die if they aren't able to excercize their wills to salvation? If free will is essential for salvation, all babies go to hell when they die. If you accept that a baby can still be under the blood of Christ without free will, you are a Calvinist with babies and an Arminian with everyone else. What gives? :D

    In Christ,

    Daniel Allen
    www.pre-evangelism.com
     
  2. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hio Whetstone;
    I'm going to sharpen myself on you here hehehe! Little joke :D
    Can any one make a decison with out the necessary information to make that decision. For that matter does a baby understand right from wrong. I don't believe He does. So he can't possibly know what to choose yet He is not condemned because where there is no Law there is no condemnation. Without understanding there is no law understood so there is no choice until one understands.
    May Christ Shine His Light On You:
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  3. whetstone

    whetstone
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    I agree. [​IMG] so the baby is not saved by free-will. He is saved by God's will.
     
  4. ILUVLIGHT

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    Whetstone;
    That's not what I meant.
    Babies are not condemned to be saved from it.
    Mike
     
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    So babies do not need saving because they have no chargeable sin!

    Or is it that babies have innate faith, and are therefore saved through faith.
     
  6. Solo Christo

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    If infants, children, mentally handicapped, etc. are saved, they are saved by grace through faith (which is a gift from God, Eph 2:8).

    Remember John the Baptist leaped for joy while still in the womb (Luke 1:41-44). Such was an act of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:41).
     
  7. icthus

    icthus
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    I do not think that anyone is "born a sinner", as they have not actually committed any sinful acts. They are however born with a sinful human nature, that is prone to sin when the infant reaches the age of understanding. We see from Scripture, that there is a time, known only to God, that the infant does not know between right and wrong (see Isaiah 7:15-16), and therefore will not be condemned to damnation for something they are not able to do.

    I am of the opinion that the death of Jesus Christ covers babies, the mentally disabled, both of which classes cannot either accept or reject Jesus as their Saviour. The Bible informs us of David's "son of sin", when he was told that he had died, David ordered a feast which his servants questioned. David said that he was happy because now that his son had dies, though he could not return to him, that he would go to be with him after he himself had died. You cannot assume that this son of David was "elect" and therefore saved, as no doubt some would try to argue

    My thoughts
     
  8. johnp.

    johnp.
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    icthus.
    Why do babies die if they are not reckoned sinners? Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Are you saying the scriptures are in error or are you saying that there are exceptions to the 'all' in "All have sinned."?
    You say, "I do not think that anyone is "born a sinner"" Therefore you deny Romans 3:22 and Ps 51:5 at least! :cool:
    Babies die. They seem to be accountable before birth onwards.
    "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Romans 9:13. You say that children are not judged and God says they are because babies die and death is the wages of sin.
    You say that classes can accept the gospel but that is just your error. Since babies are not judged why do they die?
    We need to assume nothing you do enough assuming. EZE 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.
    David's son was elect and David knew it because David knew he was saved and therefore his son was saved. Yet you say the 'son of sin' died, why did the child die if it cannot say along with his father, " PS 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.?

    Remember John the Baptist leaped for joy while still in the womb (Hello Solo Christo nice to meet you :cool: .)

    johnp.
     
  9. ILUVLIGHT

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    Johnp;
    Why do believers die, don't they have eternal life?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  10. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    John the baptist leaping in the womb, Another solitary record of a once in eternity event whose only significance is support for the truth that Jesus is God the son!
     
  11. johnp.

    johnp.
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    ILUVLIGHT.
    That ILUVLIGHT does not answer my question. "Why do babies die?
    Believers die because we are sinners. Only sinners die. That's why you are going to die ILUVLIGHT, you are a sinner.
    Now why do babies die?

    Wes.
    You have ceded the point Wes? John was saved in the womb?

    Why do babies die Wes? :cool:

    johnp.
     
  12. Solo Christo

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    Solitary record? Jeremiah was also consecrated in the womb (Jer 1:5).
     
  13. ILUVLIGHT

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    Johnp;
    Your still running around asking the same questions even after they've been answerd are you OK I mean you did drink your tea this morning didn't you. Tell me why Christians die when they already have eternal life?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  14. johnp.

    johnp.
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    ILUVLIGHT.
    I like the sound of my own voice. Why do babies die?
    I always have a cuppa tea on the go I'm English! :cool:
    ...are you OK... Yes I'm ok it's everybody else! :cool:
    They are sinners just like you. That's why they die. That sin is the only thing you can die for is it not?

    Is sin is the only thing you can die for is it not?
    Why do babies die?
    Two little questions for you man, have a go at them this time please. :cool:

    johnp.
     
  15. CubeX

    CubeX
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    In saying this you are assuming that free-will has been developed in babies already, or that they are born with it. Whereas some would argue on the grounds of an "age of accountability" and others that free-will is developed when a child developes a self-conscientious of himself and the world around him. The latter does not mean that the child knows right from wrong yet, but only that he recognises that he exists. Once that recognition occurs, the desire for independence occurs and slowly developes, much like what is apparent during adolescence, only on a primary/developmental level.

    That's all for the moment without taking sides (as of yet :D )

    In Christ,
    -David
     
  16. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    You have ceded the point Wes? John was saved in the womb?

    Why do babies die Wes? :cool:

    johnp.</font>[/QUOTE]No! johnp, I do not cede that point, John was not "saved in the womb", John lept in the womb because he being carried in Elizabeth's womb was in the proximity of the Spirit of God being carried in the womb of Mary. It is the spirit of God to whom John is to become servant, and the forerunner, foretelling the Messiah's arrival.

    If "leaping" were the sign of one being saved, then the holy rollers are the only ones saved!
     
  17. here now

    here now
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    actually born again is described as being quickened.
    quickened is also a term that is used when an unborn baby moves noticeably in its mother's womb.

    coincidence? I think NOT.
     
  18. CubeX

    CubeX
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    I don' t know if that's a good argument. Being saved is also called "being born again".

    -David
     
  19. here now

    here now
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    And how does that pertain to my comment?
     
  20. Wes Outwest

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    But neither is it conclusive, because until one publicly confesses Jesus, no one knows you have faith in Jesus! The privacy of a womans womb doesn't satisfy "confessing Jesus before man".
     

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