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Can BACKSLIDING/DISOBEDIENT Christians be DEMONIZED?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ROBERTGUWAPO, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    "Foothold" doesn't mean being possessed. It's giving Satan an advantage if you give into temptation. For example, if you are angry and let it fester, Satan can tempt you with that to get you to act in wrong ways. That is giving Satan a foothold. It does not mean bodily!

    The woman in Luke 13 was not possessed. Satan had afflicted her but notice that Jesus did not cast out a demon and did not cast out Satan. He healed her. If she had been possessed, the text would say he cast out a demon. Even if we concede she was possessed, it is not clear if this woman was a believer or just a Jew. Also, at that time, even those who believed Christ were not indwelt by the HS. But I think the text is clear that she was not possessed.

    Accepting a different Jesus or different Spirit does not indicate possession. You are reading possession into the text. And if this was a problem with the early church, why are there are no instructions on casting demons out of believers, or warnings that believers could be possessed? There are only cautions to be vigilant, soberminded, and to "submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee."

    It sounds like you've been influenced by Bubeck.
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I've probably had at least 3 or 4 dozen discussions with people on this topic. What they usually offer up is anecdotes because they have no real biblical support for these beliefs. This is what Neal Anderson does. I will take the Bible over anecdotal stories any day.

    I think the man in the story above could have thought he was possessed or "invaded by a demon" and so was unable to speak. Psychological effects are very powerful. I think a lot of these cases fall under this umbrella.

    In other cases where they might be possession, I don't think the person was really a believer.
     
  3. I think he gave up already. Hopefully he has a better understanding of what scripture has to say about Christians and demon possession. And hopefully this has helped others see that

    GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU
    THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD

    AMEN !
     
  4. Enoch

    Enoch New Member

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    I agree.
     
  5. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

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    Right from Wrong,

    I am not talking about Speaking in Tongues here--which is weird.

    We are not talking about weird behavior here. We are talking about massive pandemonium (pan - from pan, the devil; demonium - from you know what).

    Now answer this question: Let's say you went to your baptist church this weekend and you suddenly saw a majority of your churchmates--barking, screeching, oinking like pigs, howling like wolves, contorting into strange shapes, laughing uncontrollably, cursing each other and spitting, running around in circles, weeping hysterically, karate-chopping the air...

    Is this weird, or is this demonic? Please answer my question.

    You seem to not know the difference between weird behavior and behavior which is...
     
  6. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

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    Marcia said, "I think the man in the story above could have thought he was possessed or "invaded by a demon" and so was unable to speak. Psychological effects are very powerful. I think a lot of these cases fall under this umbrella."

    Marcia,

    This guy was way deep into the occult. By putting goat's hair in his private region [Edited offensive word remember parents let their children read our forums.] --that was it.

    By saying it's psychological is one way of saying, "This just can't happen. It's too hard to believe." Don't we just categorize anything we can't explain by saying it's "probably psychological."

    The doctor is a close friend of mine and has been gifted by God in this area. Are you saying that she has been deluding herself for the past 15 years? She knows when a patient has demonic manifestations and oftentimes she had sent several Christian patients home by telling their churches, "It's not demonic--he just needs to take medicine."

    And are you saying that the ministry of Neil Anderson is a sham, that it is one big lie--how unfair can this be to the many Christians that have been helped by his ministry. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

    Don't you think the leadership of Biola University, a Christian college, would have kicked him out of their Talbot School of Theology if his ministry was based on false teaching and happened to be a sham?

    My observation is this: Baptists who don't believe in the possibility of a saint's demonization will never believe no matter what--until they have witnessed one.

    If you haven't seen one, you won't believe one. That's just it folks.

    [ September 30, 2005, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  7. Robert wrote
    I did answer your question :confused: That is down right WEIRD and down right WRONG ! and it has NOTHING to do with Spirits just stupid people acting weird, based on emotions and show and God knows what else ! Stop argueing already you are the only one on here who believes this nonsense. :(
     
  8. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    ya know what I think demons have a better time doing? First, they get us distracted by these off-the-wall, extremist things like "holy barking", "holy laughter", etc. THEN they turn to the Christian next to them and say, "hey, look at that guy's post. He was obviously calling you a liar. Who does he think he is talking about you that way?"

    THEN they sit back and laugh at the Christians writing thread after thread fighting with each other over misunderstandings and misquotes and perhaps just a "bad-day-post".

    Thats how I think Christians really get demonized these days.
     
  9. That didn't make any sense bapmom. You are going to sit there and honestly say TRUTH
    doesn't matter ? If what you are saying is true

    Why Witness, why have church where a Pastor teaches us Gods word, why study your Bibles, why have Christian radio programs and show et.
    If we don't stand up for truth who will !

    UNSAVED people are not reading this board so whats your point :confused:
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    bapmom: I agree that Satan must be laughing while reading about the silly things we Christians disagree and argue about.

    Let's put a kink in his tail and just agree to disagree. Hmmmm...

    BTW, unsaved people DO read a lot of these posts as well as other denominations and children.
     
  11. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    COME ON,Right From Wrong

    What do you mean that didn't make sense?

    I hope you don't really think that there aren't unsaved on this board,and besides shouldn't we always act as if there are?
     
  12. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Since when does experience have more authroity for us as christians then the holy written word of God?
    Opinions must be based on scripture, not experience or it's nothing better then antyhing the world has to offer.
    Is this opinon based on scripture or just expereince apart from any scriptural bases?
    I think the latter.
     
  13. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Sample: What kind of Baptist churches have you been visiting? :eek:
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    My response:
    1. I take God's word over stories, I don't care how convinced the people are that tell them. You keep pushing stories but have no scripture to back up this belief that Christians can be possessed.
    2. I am not saying Anderson's ministry is a sham but I do think his beliefs lead people into bondage of fear. I wrote a response to his book The Bondgage Breaker and my pastor looked it over and helped me with it. Anderson believes that once you are saved (or at least he believed this when he wrote the BB) you have no sin nature and therefore if you sin, it's from demons. The scriptures he had in his book did not support what he was saying at all. I looked each and every one of them up.

    Other Christians have the same view of Anderson. I am not alone in this.
     
  15. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    I am in bible school [not Baptist]now and I know of 2 people that have been Saved after they where well into school. [​IMG]

    Again, should we act as if we entertain thoughs that aren't saved in that we might show them the way. :confused: [​IMG]
     
  16. AMEN DONNA My point exactly.
    If she is trying to say those who are quoting scripture to back up their points along with using scripture to refute false teachings are wrong. She is wrong ! And to suggest that Satan or unsave people are " Hurt " by this is another error. First of all unsaved people and new Christians reading a quarter of this website would run and never look back for all the disagrements on this board. So I guess it just aught be shut down and done away with right ? So who's in Control Satan or God ? I trust that Gods word will remain true. Not human opinions !

    [personal attacks deleted]

    [ October 01, 2005, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  17. SAMPLEWOW Wrote

    WHAT in the world does that mean :confused:
     
  18. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    When expereince becomes our authority over scripture, then experience becomes our god.
    All 'christian' expereince must be biblical or it isn't chritian, no matter what you call it, no matter how many christian words you use, it isn't f God if it isn't scriptural. To give that experience any authority at all makes it a god to us. And is on the same level as any cult. Actually even worse as it makes weak people believe it is 'christian' and draws the unsuspecting into it.
     
  19. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    HA, I'd like to go back a little if you all don't mind.

    Please consider what I have to say here.

    This book [:The Bondage Breaker written by ;Neil Anderson] has greatly influenced my life .

    I read his book sitting in jail for another DUI. The Bible and MR. Anderson's book changed my life.

    I'm not trying to start another subject here but I feel moved to step in and tell you all how much this mans work means to me.

    I wrote Mr.Anderson a letter while in jail to ask some questions about the things I didn't understand in his book .

    He not only wrote me but he wrote me a hand written letter explaining about my questions.


    He also sent me several books some that he had written some by other authors.


    I can't say where he stands on Demons BUT I do know where he stands on caring about me! ;)
     
  20. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I'm sure Anderson is a nice and caring man -- he is a counselor, after all, but he has some questionable theology that has been pointed out by many.

    If want a copy of what I wrote on the Bondage Breaker, PM me. I do not have it on my website. I also have links to articles on the problems with his demonology.
     
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