Can Calvinists explain this verse?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have believed as far back as I can remember studying the topic that the scripture teaches that the unregenerate have no ability own their own to come to or even want to come to God, our proclivity is to nod at God but worship at the shrine of the flesh. IOW, we don't have the ability to conjure up saving faith because it isn't within our cold, dead spirit until it is given.

 

By the way, Skandelon, what makes you so sure that these were unregenerates ? First, this was a reference to Isaiah 6:9. Was God threatening to wipe out[/b] His own people ?[/b] As in the judgment of the wicked unregenerate in eternal fire ? Were they being told to open their eyes so they can become Israelites ?

They were already Israelites, disobedient Israelites, if you will, but, Israelites just the same. God's chosen nation, in the physical sense.

Likewise, in the spiritual sense, one does not become a child of God by virtue of any action he makes, but, by virtue of divine election !

Obedience or disobedience is a choice one who is already a child of God has.

Therefore, these are elect children of God, who refuse to hear counsel, who chose disobedience and therefore miss out on the blessings they could have had.

 

Amen !

 

Here is the verse again:

 

Who departed ? Both those who were persuaded, and those who still disbelieved.

Seems to me like Paul was exasperated at this point.

Hasn't that happened to you yet when you conduct a Bible study, and many profess to understand and believe, and many say they are not persuaded, and both exit, and you've been going back and forth ?

And yes, it is possible to be a regenerated person and unconverted IF you are willing to grant that the "Lord's hand is not shortened, that it could not save". It is possible for an unregenerate to be unconverted and still go to heaven because his conversion is not what determines his eternal salvation.
It is the Lord who seeks His own, and regenerates him in His own time, with no help from man.

Belief is a product of conversion, and conversion follows regeneration.


Ezekiel 34:11-15

Now. A question, Skandelon.

I am curious. Why is it that I can probably fill two pages of this forum with Scriptures showing that man is so immersed in sin from inception to adulthood, in practice, in all his faculties, and show you (although you know) that God has declared natural man dead in trespasses and sins, and has himself said no one seeks after Him, and no one understands, yet here you are trying your best to prove that there is at least one iota of good in man that will cause him to voluntarily turn to God ? That he is not truly spiritually dead ?

I am truly curious, and absolutely amazed.

 

Could you quote the passage that teaches we are unable to respond in faith to the powerful Holy Spirit wrought gospel message? Thanks </font>[/QUOTE]You like to ignore what I wrote and revise it in your mind to say what you want?

NOTICE MY QUOTE: "until it is given." I'll paint a picture if it'll make you happy: Saving faith is given by the powerful Holy Spirit.

Better now?

 

Erratum:

Further clarification.

While it is possible for a regenerate not to be converted in every sense of the word, it is impossible for him to remain unbeliever in every sense of the word.

 

Skandelon said:

Okay. I think I'm getting the drift here. I think neither you nor our side are operating on the same wave length.

When the gospel, by virtue of a missionary, preacher, pastor, or lay worker, confronts an individual, I will agree that its powerful message can indeed convert men, but only those whose ears have been unstopped, whose eyes have been opened, and who have been quickened by the Spirit [/b] previously [/b], before the gospel reaches them (John 1:12-13), they received Christ because they were born from above.
But, if what you are saying is this receiving happens before regeneration, then we part ways, because the gospel will not work to spiritually dead men.

 

Also, those whom God did not leave on their own were only His people. For them He provided those things which you enumerated.

His salvation was planned and executed for them only, not for the entire fallen humankind. His grace was directed towards His people. Jesus' blood was shed only for His people. Justification by faith, and thru the blood, is clearly shown by Scriptures to be for His people.
Regeneration is for His people. The names of His people, and only His people, are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and they were not written there at the moment they 'accepted' Christ as Savior, or heard the Gospel preached to them, they were written before the foundation of the world.
The atonement was for their benefit, and that atonement is final, complete and secure, and not 'progressive' or 'sequential'.

 

God morning Pionybaptist;

All This is saying is that God is responsible for our creation. Notice it says "which were born", We are all God's children we were all created by Him.
We weren't born by that of blood. Meaning our parents didn't bring us into the world God did. It goes on to say not by flesh repeating again that we are not born as a result of what our parents did. It wasn't mans will but God's will that brought us into the world. These two passages are not talking about being reborn spiritually. Go back and reread the entire chapter and take it in context of what is being said.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

Hi Pionybaptist;

All of this might have been true except for the one thing you may not haven't considerd. Because of the rejection of Christ by the Jews Salvation is sent to the Gentiles instead, and it is the Jews who are blinded not the Gentiles. It is the Jews that need to have there eyes opened.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
It was a sad day for Christ when His own rejected Him. One thing for sure God will deal with the Jews again. He will open there eyes and there ears and will make it so they understand.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

I appreciate your comments, Mike, but it will do well for you to study the term Israel as used when referring to God's chosen people.

There is a true Israel, and there is a false Israel. There is a spiritual Israel, and there is a national Israel. The latter is used often to illustrate truths for the former.