CAN CHRISTIANS GO ON STRIKE?

Started out a member of the Machinists and aerospace workers (as an electrician) for six years working in a factory remanufacturing subway cars, contract said no strikes allowed "order of the management".

Became a member of Glaziers lo 1988 in Binghamton we merged with Rochester about 4 years later and the Binghamton guys were put out of work by the Rochester guys in our area. Contract said no strikes allowed "by order of the management"

So, I transferred to Buffalo lo 660 where I am a member today. Contract says no strikes allowed "by order of the management".

So, it all depends on what your contract says...if it says no strikes allowed "by order of the mangement" then no you don't have a right to strike...if it says that you do have a right to strike then you have a better contract than most (imo) and should be able to exercise that right.

Read your contract and by laws of your national or international.

Talk it over with your union steward. File a grievance. You should at least have that in your contract. You should exercise any legal "rights" you agreed to in that contract.

 

Poncho makes a good point.
It depends on what your contract says. Of course, if you do go on strike, you should not engage in violence or illegal activity.

Major B, I have to disagree with you. Sure there are examples of bad unions and strikes. But that doesn't mean per se that all unions have had their day and that strikes are always wrong. Many of the advantages that non-union workers have now were won for them by unions.

I could give just as many anecdotes about unions that have not been strong enough. For example, my grandfather was part of a group in the late 1960's that was fired 6 months before being eligible to receive full pensions. There was nothing wrong with their work. They each had worked for almost 30 years. This kind of firing was made illegal a couple of years later.

The basic theory of unions is to bargain as a unit. To be on a more level playing field than just one worker bargaining with a vast company.
And I think that is a good concept. Sure there is trouble fleshing it out.

As a theological point, Christians, I believe, are allowed to use available legal remedies of government. In an ethical way, of course.

I was a member of a union for a short time while I was earning money for college. And I am proud of it. (Boot and Shoe Workers Local) That factory and others in the state were closed down about 10 years ago and the jobs moved overseas. Not because the union was so greedy. People that worked there for years might make $8 hour. But that can't compete with overseas workers at 10 cents an hour.

Karen

 

I think Unions in general are just expensive employment agencies. Especially in the "trades", carpenters, ironworkers, masons, electricians, pipe fitters, plumbers, sheet metal workers aka "tin knockers", sprinkler fitters, millwrights, and glaziers.

Everbody seems to want do glaziers work which is anything considered as architectural, metal (aluminum, wood or vinyl) frames, doors, windows, specialty glass, curtianwalls, storefronts, mirrors, etc.

I can't remember ever being on a job that a carpenter didn't tell me that windows should be carpenter work...because we sometimes use wood shims or frame out a concrete opening with wood to anchor to. Or a mason tell me that windows and doors should be masons work because we sometimes (mostly in new contruction) anchor directly to concrete openings. Or have an iron worker tell me that windows and all frames should be iron worker work because sometimes we have to weld metal (iron) deadload and windload clips to strutural steel to anchor curtain walls.

I don't see how they can last much longer. They have priced themselves right out of the labor market especially now when all you have to do find labor is meet a bus pulling in from Mexico.

This seems to be the thing now. Laborers today, but tomorrow with some little training they'll learn the trades. Well, at that point you can either work with them at their (lower) wages or you can start a business and hire them. Or you can take up orgamy and spend your new found free time down by the river waiting for your supper to show up and wiggle your fishin pole.

 

Much of the OT took place and was written in cultures where simply leaving and finding another job when you were treated badly by your employer was either not considered acceptable behaviour, or simply impossible. Striking however was considered an acceptable form of protest.
Case in point. When the people of Israel left Egypt. The Egyptian army tried to stop them. On the other hand we have documentation of Egyptian tombbuilders going on strike because their pay was late and Egyptian government officials responding by starting negotiations and using their power to ensure the labourers got their back pay.

 

The scriptures say;
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Our goal is to glorify Christ in all we do. No one EVER glorified the Lord on a picket line.

 

If the company agrees to a contract and they violate the contract, there might be just cause to strike. This does not mean that I advocate it, it just means that legally there might be grounds to take that action. And to paint with a broad brush and say that NNE EVER glorified the Lord on a picket line isn't necessarily so. I know of several people who have led people to the Lord on the picket line. One can still be on the picket line and be a witness.

AVL1984

 

Hogwash! The scriptures are clear. We are to work for them as for the Lord and if treated badly honor them, not stand out front and call themnames and dishonor the Lord. Again the Lord has NEVER been honored by a picket line. NEVER! We are to do all we do as unto the lord and the picket line is not that. Get another job if you do not like what they are doing. Before I was saved I belonged to unions and every one is nothing but about greed. The best way to deal with the compnay if you do not like how they pay or treat you is move on and I do not want to hear that you cannto. That is an excuse. Come to TEXAS there are many jobs here and they pay well without unions for the most part.

 

I have belonged to several unions. I never stood outside and called people or the company names. I did, however state the facts that the company had agreed to certain conditions of employment and was now backing away from those conditions. That is not a sin, friend. I live in TN, and there are many jobs here that pay well without unions, but there are also union jobs of the same sort that pay anywhere up to half again as much as the non union workers are making.
You cannot prove your assertion that the Lord has never been honored by a picket line. That is opinion at best.

AVL1984

 

FAL,

I think your POV is a bit extreme. Several years ago, I had to file a claim for harrassment in the workplace against my supervisor (not sexual harrassment, btw). By your assertion, I should have worked as under the Lord, and continued to endure the harrassment.

Additionally, when you take a union job, and the union members vote to go on strike, you don't have a choice. You're obligated to go on strike. Strikes are typically allowed in contracts that employers enter into with unions. Hence, as an employee, your employer knows that you have a legal right to strike.

 

In the scripture I posted earlier, Christ clearly establishes the principle that workers do not have the right to demand more of the owner than what they agreed to from the start.

A strike is exactly the opposite of that principle. If the union strikes, the parable says the owner has the right to do as he wills with that which belongs to him- In other words, get new workers.

 

How am I glorifying the Lord when I am in my car on my commute to work?
How did I glorify the Lord when I attended an incredibly boring meeting this morning?
How did I glorify the Lord when I was answering my email?
How did I glorify the Lord when I was submitting a rather lengthy report today?

If the collective bargaining agreement in which a union entered is broken, why does it not glorify the Lord when the union goes out on strike?
Perhaps you should back up your statements when you make them. If it is indeed "clear" in the Scriptures, you should not have any trouble showing this to us. The two Passages you offered did not make this "clear."

 

Unions are so communist. They only protect the slow, lazy, and incompetent anyway.

 

A strike is exactly the opposite of that principle. If the union strikes, the parable says the owner has the right to do as he wills with that which belongs to him- In other words, get new workers. [/QB][/QUOTE]

You are presuming that every strike is a demand for more than the contract states.

Karen

 

We all need to remember that if it was not for unions(organized labor) that we workers would not enjoy the working conditions and salaries that we have today. And the ability to strike has been a necessary component of making this progress that we, union and non-union workers, enjoy today.

I guess if one does not appreciate unions, then maybe he/she needs to go work in a sweatshop for a while and then he/she will gain a better understanding of what unions have done for all of us for well over a hundred years.

 

Eccl 3:1-8
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven --
2 A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
A time to keep and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.
8 A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace.
NASU

 

That is total presumption on your part. It is ludicrous to suggest that positive changes in the work place could have only resulted from organized labor.

In fact, I would suggest that well short of being the only way, it isn't even the best way. Two wrongs don't make a right. Company abuse of labor is wrong... but so is organized extortion.

Once again, this is rightly a responsibility of those who benefit from free press rights. The will to free the slaves was not a result of slaves organizing and refusing to work. It was a direct result of public outcry not due to first hand knowledge but due to press reports and people practicing their free speech/assembly rights.

Abuses of labor could have and should have been resolved by printed exposes.

The only way I could view unions as legitimate would be if they, like businesses, were forbidden from monopoly. A company should be able to negotiate the best deal from multiple unions.

Fallacy of limited alternatives.

 

I suggested no such thing. But the fact is that historically that is how positive changes in the work place came about. That you cannot deny.

To state that these positive changes could have come about in some other manner is pure speculation on your part.

As far as slaves helping to create the climate to eliminate slavery, have you ever heard of the Underground Railroad - "Those who worked on the Underground Railroad knew that it was the fugitives themselves who had taken the initiative and the major risks of escaping."

 

Dear Scott J,
I disagree with many of the premises in your post. I would not always presume one or two parties being in the wrong. Unions exist (and yes, many abuses have occurred) where workers have legally voted them in to represent them in collective bargaining. Union leaders traditionally rise through the ranks, having worked in the job they represent. If they do not negotiate effectively, they are replaced. When I was a union member, the leaders did not negotiate for $500,000 a year for each of us. LOL. Unions that put their workers out of jobs don't succeed, ultimately.

....... Scott J said: It was a direct result of public outcry not due to first hand knowledge but due to press reports and people practicing their free speech/assembly rights.....

Karen: People exercising their contractual rights is extortion ? but OTHER people without firsthand knowledge CAN protest, if they can be convinced, on the workers' behalf?...

Scott:...Abuses of labor could have and should have been resolved by printed exposes.

The only way I could view unions as legitimate would be if they, like businesses, were forbidden from monopoly. A company should be able to negotiate the best deal from multiple unions.
........[/qb][/QUOTE]

Karen: ONLY is a little sweeping. Would you make no allowance for the size of the company and the number of workers?
A printed expose is all it would have taken?
Outside public opinion is all that can and should be needed to deal with health and safety issues?

Karen

[ September 02, 2004, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Karen ]

 

The Unions Protect the rights of the American worker. Period.

Charles Adkins AKA BornBaptist
Son of a UAW Member
Charlie Adkins
UAW LOCAL 22
Poletown Plant
(GM - Detroit/Hamtramick Plant)
30 Years BABY!
Detroit, Mi

 

Which "right" are you referring to? The right to property? Free speech? Assembly?

There is no such thing as a God given right to employment, high wages, health care, etc.

Unions may look out for the self-interests of their members but it is not based on any God given right.

Extorting more wages from a property owner is not a right... it is the violation of a right. I am by no means justifying the mistreatment of workers or the denial of pay commensurate with the value of the work produced. But no one forces anyone to work for one employer or another in our day.