1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Can Christians OVERTHROW an EVIL government?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by ROBERTGUWAPO, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is not a matter of right or wrong. The question as I see it is: Are we as christians to be entangled with the affairs of this world?

    As I see it the US was ultimately in God's will but It was established by the god of this world.

    Where does the NT tell us to go about establishing kingdoms in this world.

    Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

    Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

    "sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world" & "All these things will I give thee" including the US as one of the kingdoms of this world.
     
  2. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eltrow,

    Evil spreads when good men do nothing. [​IMG]

    Robert
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    What did Daniel do when threatened by an evil government?

    a. Round us his friends for a public demonstration.
    b. Round up his friends to take arms and fight back.
    c. Lie about things.
    d. Go about his business in a quiet way, preparing to die.

    Answer: D -- Daniel and the three others did not complain in the least about the evil government. They did not fight back, or run. They did not lie or hide their faith. They did not make big shows through public demonstrations. They prepared to die.

    “When Daniel heard about the law forbidding his prayer, he did not really the troops for a strike or armed resistance, he prepared himself for death. The same may be said concerning the three friends in Daniel 3. Christians do not fight for their beliefs by assaulting or killing, but by dying” (Longman).

    We as believers would do well to take an example from these (and many others in Scripture).
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe that both individuals and countries have a right to self-defense. Therefore, I would have supported the fight to defend my country's independence in the American Revolutionary War and I would have supported the fight to defend my country's independence in the War for Southern Independence.
     
  5. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ken can you tell me where we get this right to self-defense. Turning the cheek is the only defense I could think of and I don't know of any rights a dead man has.

    As a Christian do I have a right to life? - Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    As for liberty? - Jas 4:15 For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. and my liberty is dependant upon the Spirit of the Lord - 2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

    And am I to pursue happiness? - Mt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

    2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, if, God forbid, you are ever in a position where your wife is being beaten and raped, and you want to just stand there and not defend her; or if you are having your brains beat out and just want to stand there and take it, that is your choice. My choice would be different, Scripture quotes or no.

    The right to self-defense or to defend one's loved ones and friends comes with being a human being.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    I would love to see some scriptural, not historical or hypthotical support, for rebellion against authority.
     
  8. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ken do you believe that all things, not just the things we enjoy but ALL THINGS work together for our good?
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is none.

    But that does not affect my position. I believe that my freedoms are gifts from God and I support those efforts to protect them from tyranny.

    Of course, those that believe the freedom we have in these United States is ill-gotten gain are free to leave the country if they don't appreciate the blood that has been shed to protect freedom in this country. (Not directed at you personally, C4K, on the Emerald Isle. [​IMG] )
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Answer me this, Eltrow, if your wife was being beaten before your eyes by someone in authority, would you fight to protect her?
     
  11. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    You ask a hypothetical that cannot be answered. I believe that all things word together for my good.

    Have you heard of Dimitri Dudoman from Rumania? Exactly what you asked happened to his wife. He and she lived to tell about it and testify to what the Lord did because of it.

    Have you read Fox's book of martyrs? More of the same.

    What I would do in such a situation I don't know, but this one thing I would do is listen real hard to the Holy Spirit. He will tell me what to do. He always has in the past. I have not doubt He will in the future.
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    Ken,

    I always enjoy our "spats". Thanks for keeping a good spirit.

    Now - back to fight guys.
     
  13. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    My wife heard about all this and said we need to pray more as Jesus instructed - Lu 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Another true story.

    I think it was 2-3 yrs ago that the moslems in Indonesia were rampaging and going to "christian" homes to rape and abuse them. Many that belonged to nominal christian churches (catholic for the most part) were raped and abused. A missionary that I know personally when they came to his house said, "In the name of Jesus Christ leave us alone." And they left him and all is congragation that were with him alone.
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do as you wish, Eltrow. As for me, I would fight to protect my wife.
     
  15. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    0
    Answer me this, Eltrow, if your wife was being beaten before your eyes by someone in authority, would you fight to protect her? </font>[/QUOTE]Eltrow,

    Just answer the question. Would you defend your wife or just stand there, see her get raped, while praying to God for wisdom and seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance on what to do?

    In my book a person who just sits there is a...never mind. [​IMG]

    By the way, this is what I publicly told my wife, in front of the pastor and our wedding guests: "You are God's gift to me. I will make sure that no harm comes to you. I will defend you with a .357, a .45, a .44 magnum, a sword, a spear, an ax, an assault rifle, or a bow, and whatever it takes to preserve the life that God has given me..." :D
     
  16. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Answer me this, Eltrow, if your wife was being beaten before your eyes by someone in authority, would you fight to protect her? </font>[/QUOTE]Eltrow,

    Just answer the question. Would you defend your wife or just stand there, see her get raped, while praying to God for wisdom and seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance on what to do?

    In my book a person who just sits there is a...never mind. [​IMG]

    By the way, this is what I publicly told my wife, in front of the pastor and our wedding guests: "You are God's gift to me. I will make sure that no harm comes to you. I will defend you with a .357, a .45, a .44 magnum, a sword, a spear, an ax, an assault rifle, or a bow, and whatever it takes to preserve the life that God has given me..." :D
    </font>[/QUOTE]Robert,

    JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION! ARE YOU ABLE TO HEAR THE HOLY SPIRIT?
     
  17. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Answer me this, Eltrow, if your wife was being beaten before your eyes by someone in authority, would you fight to protect her? </font>[/QUOTE]Ken it is your turn to answer my question.

    Ken do you believe that all things, not just the things we enjoy but ALL THINGS work together for our good?
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
    For those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.

    Romans 8:28 (ESV)
    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
     
  19. Eltrow

    Eltrow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question remains do you believe?
     
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,907
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Faith:
    Baptist
Loading...