Can Freedom Overcome Tyranny? What say you?

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Nov 28, 2004.

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Can Freedom Overcome Tyranny? What say you?

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  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I just finished reading the introduction of Natan Sharansky's book: The Case for Democracy. I am enjoying it immensely so far. Anyway, he brought up some interesting ideas about why freedom is always stronger than tyranny. But, what say you? Do you believe Freedom is strong enough to always overcome tyranny? Why or why not? Vote and then post comments if you wish.
     
  2. Ben W

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    I look at Iraq, and I have wondered if freedom is what people really want there.

    Under Saddam things were certainley bad and I would have naturally thought that people would be very keen to work with those that overthrew him. Yet there seems at the same time to be so much hate and amimosity towards the west. Can Iraq have actual freedom? I dont actually think so. I think that there will always be a tribal form of local government which will suppress real freedom yet this unfortunatley in the worst sense the only way a quasi form of democracy can work.
     
  3. Turpius

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    I think in some cases, like Iraq, you have to "teach" the people what real freedom is. They haven't had it for so long (if ever)they may not really understand the concept that well.

    I suspect that's what should have been done in parts of Eastern Europe and Central Asia after the fall of communism. Some countires would be a lot more stable if they hadn't been left to fend for themselves all of the sudden like they were.
     
  4. fromtheright

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    I believe that freedom can overcome tyranny, I just don't believe that it can always overcome tyranny. And that freedom can overcome tyranny when it is truly freedom and not license, which itself leads to tyranny.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    FTR,

    Just to clarify, do you believe that freedom is not a universal longing? If people were given the choice between tyranny, fear, and danger vs. freedom, do you believe that anyone would seriously choose the former?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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  7. swaimj

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    Freedom always overcomes tyranny? Has there ever been anyone who rejected the freedom that Christ gives in favor of the tyranny of their own sinful nature? You bet there has been. Even Christians sometimes prefer our sin to the freedom found in obedience to Christ. I realize that the question is in the context of a political situation, but if the principle does not work in the spiritual realm, I doubt it is a universal truth in the political realm either.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    So, you believe that people would choose fear and terror over freedom if given the choice?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. swaimj

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    Joseph, the German people voted Adolph Hitler into office in a free election. History is full of examples of people making bad choices in elections. If people of few resources (that is they have little income, no property) are given a choice between freedom such as we have in the US versus a dictator who will rule by terror but promise them food and shelter, they will choose the dictator every time.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Do you believe the Germans had any idea how brutal Hitler would be when they voted for him? If not, that would invalidate your argument, wouldn't it? I don't believe they did. I have actually heard that there were many Germans who had no idea what was happening until after the war. Certainly people might misjudge a leader's character, but do you believe that they would actually choose to live in fear as opposed to living in freedom. I don't think so.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Melanie

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    Certainly the tryranny of hunger, fear, sickness and poverty shackle way too many people on this planet.

    When those folk see those who have so much that is where anger builds, and resentment making the oppressed vulnerable to the machinations of the power hungry orator. The provision by the person seen by the oppressed as a Saviour with a scapegoat whether they be an ethnic minority, a priviledged group, or an evil empire etc focuses the attention away from the real cause of oppression and allows a target for revenge.
     
  12. Melanie

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    If the Allies had not oprressed Germany so bitterly after the surrender, the circumstances which led to a 2nd world war may have been avoided.

    Thankfully this lesson was learnt and such oppression was not visited upon Japan or Germany the second time round.
     
  13. swaimj

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    Now you have changed the question. The original question is "can freedom overcome tyranny"? The answer to that question is "yes it can. However, the implication of the question seems to be (and correct me if I'm wrong) "isn't it inevitable that freedom will overcome tyranny"? The answer to that is "no, it is not inevitable that freedom will overcome tyrany". Joseph, I have given you a theological reason for my answer which you have not addressed. If freedom inevitably overcomes tyranny, then why does everyone not accept the freedom from the tyranny of sin offered in Christ?
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The obvious answer is that they are living in the pleasure of the moment with no real understanding of the consequences of their actions in the future. Much like many Germans, I believe had they known the consequences of their decision, I don't think they would have chosen that. People don't go out of their way to choose to live in fear, if they are aware of a better alternative. I just don't think that is in their nature.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. JGrubbs

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    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." --James Madison

    "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    That's great. So, how about you? Do you believe that Freedom can overcome tyranny and terror?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. LadyEagle

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    The people have to WANT to be free. When the people WANT to be free, they pay the price, and there is ALWAYS a price to be paid for freedom - somebody is paying the price. Also, freedom is scary because you have to make choices, whereas, under tyranny, the choices are made for you.

    I have seen very few Iraqi equivalents of Patrick Henry in Iraq.
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

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    LE,

    You been to Iraq in the past two years? I didn't realize that.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. JGrubbs

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    That is a good question! I believe that it is possible for freedom to overcome tyranny in some cases, but it doesn't always happen. I believe is is much easier to tyranny to come about than it is for freedom to take hold, for freedom is never actually free, but always has a very high price that must be paid, while tyranny happens takes hold a little at a time, and sometimes even can appear as a good thing, a "wolf in sheeps clothing" if you will.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Some thoughts from Natan Sharansky: A former Soviet Dissident who lived in prison under a tyrannical regime.

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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