Can God commit an Evil Act?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm having a discussion with someone on Deuteronomy 20. The logic is this:

    Killing is Evil
    God commanded the Israelites to butcher babies
    Therefore God must have commited an Evil act.


    It seems to me that this claim is actually a sin. Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing. This person although charging God with evil still believed it was the right thing to do.

    Is this person right?

    Passages please.
     
  2. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG]

    Isa 45-7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
     
  3. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does this mean that God commits evil acts or simply creates things that in turn do evil?
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    1 John 5:3 (Geneva Bible 1587)
    [/b]For this is the loue of God, that we keepe his commandements:
    and his commandements are not burdenous.[/b]

    For all we know the perverse adults were to be killed
    to avoid the spread of some STD (sexually transmitted
    disease). The animals, women, children, and babies were
    to be killed also for these pervert had contaminated
    them with STDs also.

    What ever the reason, God is a God of Love and
    gives the right commandments.
     
  5. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed, yes we keep His commandments, but in this case does He keep His commandments? Thou shalt not murder. Does this apply to God?
     
  6. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is also a God of justice.

    His divine justice dictated that these people were to die at the hands of His children.

    Therefore, it was not a sin.

    God can not sin.

    Can God do evil things? I guess it depends upon how you define the word.

    Something that would seem evil to us, in that it may kill us, could be construed by God as justice, or even love.

    Think about someone who finds out they have cancer. They die only a few weeks later without going through much pain or anything. While we might think that God allowing them to have cancer is evil, God would perceive it as justice, as we all inherit death sue to our sin in Adam, and love, because He did not allow the person to suffer a great deal.
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    The doctrine of the sovereignty
    of God (sorry i need to go to bed now):

    God can do anything He wants, any how He wants,
    any why He wants, anywhere He wants,
    using any who persons (or donkeys) He wants,
    for any goals that He might want.

    It is not up to us to put limits on God.
    God does not have to keep His commandments
    He gives to people. God had a perfectly
    GOOD reason to tell His Children what to
    do. We just don't know that that reason
    was NOW.
     
  8. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what I'm hearing from you James is that evil is a subjective term that we can define as we like. Is this so? And that as long as we don't claim that God has sinned, then we are not in danger of charging God with wrongdoing.

    Ed,

    What I'm hearing from you is that God can do whatever he wants to do. God can be evil if He wants to be.

    Yes, it's late in this part of Oklahoma too(just south of OKC). Good night!
     
  9. gopchad

    gopchad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    1
    (1Jo 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    God in His essence is the very opposite of sin and evil.

    Your logic is okay, but your premise is incorrect.

    Who ever said that ALL killing is evil? There are numerous passages throughout the Bible where God commands the taking of human life (Genesis 9:6 comes immediately to mind.) I reject your initial premise of the evilness of killing, so I also reject your conclusion.

    Your syllogism is not unlike Satan's to Eve at Eden. He started with an idea that restrictions
    were bad. God's plan contained restrictions (do not eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil), therefore God's plan was bad. Again, you can't deny Satan's logic, but his premise was way off.

    In Deut 20 God is giving his plan for nation building. No attacks without conditions for non-canaanitish countries, and mercy to the defenseless, and utter destruction to the canaanites because of the paganess in the land of promise. God is sovereign. AMEN!
     
  10. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about the 10 Commandments? Are we not instructed "thou shalt not murder"? Isn't butchering innocent babies murder?
     
  11. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I'm saying the word evil that we use today has not really the same meaning as the word was used when translated in 1611, and especially in the first century.

    Today, it usually connotates something done out of wickedness.

    Back then, evil could mean that, as well as anything negatively affecting events or people.

    Can weather be evil? I think today we would say, "no". That does not change the fact that weather does negatively affect our lives many times.

    In the "old" days, weather could have classified as being evil because of those negative affects.

    I'm not saying the word today is open to translation, but back then, like many words, it certainly was.

    God is also called awful in the bible. Today we have only one meaning for that word...something really bad. Back then, it meant that He, or His voice in particular, was full of awe, wonder, marvel, etc.

    Words or phrases such as these must be taken in context of the passage in which they were written and the time in which they were written. Otherwise, you get people thinking that God has sinned.
     
  12. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    Babies are not innocent in God's mind.

    They are just as sinful as anyone else.
     
  13. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you deny it was murder?
     
  14. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    No.

    But, the ten commandments say "THOU shalt not kill." It says nothing about what God can do.

    He is God. His will is perfect.

    He is the opposite of sin, so His acts, by definition, can not be sinful.

    The bible says that the potter has the power to destroy the clay, and the clay does not question the potter's actions.

    We are made by Him, therefore He has absolute authority over what He will do with us.

    Is it evil for God to allow people to go to hell?

    No, because we all are deserving of it.

    It's the same when He either directly kills people or orders them to be killed. We are all deserving of it, and He has authority to do what He wills with His creation without reservation and without being sinful.
     
  15. here now

    here now
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    0
    [ March 18, 2005, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: here now ]
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    No, it is God's judgement on a people. He is perfect, His way is perfect, His ways and His thoughts are not the same as ours.
     
  17. gopchad

    gopchad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    1
    Do you deny it was murder? </font>[/QUOTE]murder is sin, (Rom 1:29)
    God cannot sin,(1JN 1:5)
    therefore it was not murder.

    When one has a system to his theology, the hard sayings of scripture are easier to comprehend. When one tries to reason Gods thoughts he fails in his endeavor.
     
  18. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you saying that by definition if something is evil, then it is sinful? I ask this because as you can see from the original post, the position is that although it was not sinful, it was evil.
     
  19. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, that last post was asked towards James.
     
  20. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Bro. James. Well put.
     

Share This Page

Loading...