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Can God Discipline a Believer for Sin?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Jan 30, 2007.

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  1. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Nice definition. Now can you show me in Scripture where it says that?

    Again can you provide some Scripture to back this up, and then can you explain how that meshes with I John 1:9 which is IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. What you have said is that I John 1:9 should really say WHEN we confess our sins, but that's not what the text says. It says IF, which means there is a possibility that we won't.

    Here we agree . . . see we still agree on some things, so don't bash me :)

    But the same question could be asked of you. What you have stated is that a Christian WILL fight against sin in his/her life. So if that is an automatic process as you suggest then why are we told many, many times that we should fight against sin in our lives?

    Amy you are promoting the same things by saying that a Christian WILL be sorrowful and WILL confess their sins, etc. Why are we told to do things things if it comes naturally for the Christian?

    AMEN!

    AMEN!

    Where I think you have gone tragically wrong is in saying that Christians WILL be sorry for their sins and they WILL confess their sins. I don't see any evidence of that in Scripture. And I don't see any evidence that if one does not feel sorry for their sin and do not confess it that they are unsaved. Because salvation is not based on feeling sorry for sin, nor confessing it, but believing in the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, on my behalf a sinner. Once that is done I am saved whether I feel sorry for a sin or confess a sin or not.

    And there is nothing in Scripture that says feeling sorry for sin and confessing sin is a natural byproduct of salvation.

    We are born as babes in Christ as must be taught right from wrong. Now that learning process may be shortened a lot for someone that has grown up in church, because a lot of what they had heard would start to make sense more quickly, but we can not automate a process that is not automatic.

    The most important thing is that what one is doing by attaching lifestyle to salvation is leaving people in dispair because they begin to think well I'm not good enough, I'm not sorry enough, I'm not this or that and their growth is stunted. Instead of testing someones salvation on their lifestyle, which is unScriptural let's just flat ask people what they believe in regard to Jesus.

    If they say they believe in His death and shed blood on their behalf a sinner or have believed that then let's treat them as the Christians they are. And instead of telling them well I guess you must not be saved, why don't we just tell them that there are consequences for their actions. And if they don't turn around (repent) then they will face those consequences both here and in the age to come.
     
    #81 J. Jump, Feb 2, 2007
  2. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Well when you get your nightmare that is year-end taxes done don't forget about my question :)

    Well I agree they will spend eternity with God, but I don't think it can be proven that it is heaven. So does a Christian that keeps on sinning with no repentance still get to rule and reign with Christ in His coming kingdom?

    Because those that are found faithful, obedient and overcoming are going to be ruling with Christ in His kingdom. Rulers wear crowns. So you will be wearing your crown if you are found to be a well done thy good and faithful servant. They will not be worn in arogance, becuase we will be the lords under The Lord, and we will be kings under The King, so there will be nothing to boast about.

    Well I like said I think a person could certainly think that, but to pass it on as doctrine I think only confuses matters. What I think it has led to is pastors and lay people being ticket punchers or fire insurance salesmen.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! :)

    May the tax gurus look favorably on you this year :)
     
    #82 J. Jump, Feb 2, 2007
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The "atoning Sacrifice" was paid in full at the cross (1John 2:2).

    But atonement includes more than the sacrifice according to Lev 16,

    When the atonement process defined by God in Lev 16 that includes the work of Christ as our High Priest - then I think you would finally get to the problem you are trying to address here.

    Heb 12 makes it clear that God discplines those he loves. In 1Cor 5 and 2Cor 7 Paul is very explicit about discipline being imposed by God through the church on fellow church members.

    I don't see that happening once the ministry of Christ as high priest is ended as we see it in Rev 15.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #83 BobRyan, Feb 2, 2007
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: There seems to be a little discrepancy between what I find in the Word of God and what you write. I have to wonder where you came up with the wording you appear to be quoting. Here is what it says. “1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

    I have never nor will I ever tell you that a believer I this world cannot sin in any absolute sense, for I believe most if not all do at some point in time and in some manner. What I will tell you is that if we sin, we have an obligation to repent of those sins and to seek renewed forgiveness. I would further tell you that Scripture clearly warns the believer that the possibility exists that one that has accepted Christ by faith, can indeed sin, reject his faith in Christ, backslide and eventually become apostate and as such fail to inherit eternal life.

    It is not just what road a pilgrim starts down that determines their final destiny, but what road they find themselves on when they pass from this life into the next. There is but one road that leads to eternal life, and that is the highway of holiness and obedience. It is my desire to live on that road and remain on that road with the help of the Holy Spirit, until I stand before Him in judgment. Something tells me that is your desire as well. :thumbs:
     
    #84 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 3, 2007
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    The verse I quoted is from the NKJV. I did not come up with the wording. And I agree with you. :)
     
    #85 Amy.G, Feb 3, 2007
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: The atonement that was made on the cross was indeed ‘for sin’ in that it satisfied the demands of the law on behalf of all sin, and made a way, or built a bridge to allow for the ‘possibility’ that all could come to God by faith, and be treated governmentally as if though they had never sinned. Just the same, the death of Christ on the cross in actuality did not specifically secure the remission of any particular individual's sin. In order for any specific sin to be remitted, one must fulfill the conditions for forgiveness that God had demanded of us, which are initially repentance and faith in Christ, and ultimately obedience until the end.
     
    #86 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 3, 2007
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Another thought that goes along with the OP, is that it is impossible to violate moral law if there is no penalty. Law is a rule of action. Moral law is a rule of action with sanctions. *If you remove the prescribed sanctions, you eliminate moral law and reduce it to mere suggestions, to the end of landing in the trap of antimonianism, or a state of no law or where law is no longer in force.

    The penalty for sin in Scripture is none other than eternal separation from God. There is not one Scripture given that I have found that states or implies that the penalty for sin in the life of the Christian is loss of rewards. That is simply a mistaken opinion that is without merit…... unless of course one on this list can set forth Scripture to the contrary.

    How can God discipline and or punish a believer for sin, if in fact it has all been paid for on the cross by the vicarious sufferings of Christ, and the law and its penalty having been set aside on the believer’s behalf? Would not any punishment and or discipline for sin in the believer be evidence that the work on the cross was less than able to accomplish the ends of removing the stain of sin in our lives and making us pure before God?

    Moreover, how could a believer ever ‘sin’ period, if in fact moral law and it’s penalty has been set aside regarding them?
     
    #87 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 4, 2007
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