Can God Lose Our Salvation?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    The question is often asked "Can a believer lose his salvation?" I think the more pertinent question is, "Can God lose a believer's salvation?"

    "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

    "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

    "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee."

    "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation."

    "Sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise."

    "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

    "Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his son."

    "Shall in no wise lose his reward."

    "Though he fall he shall not be utterly cast down; for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand."

    "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands."

    "I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him."

    "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his."

    Glory to God in the highest! I am His and He will keep me to the day of redemption!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. BrianT

    BrianT
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    And yet so many scriptures warn against falling away...
     
  3. donnA

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    Prephaps those falling away were never true believers, not real christians at all. The falling away happens becasue they've been pretending to be christians, and can't keep it up, their true nature comes to light sooner or later.
     
  4. BrianT

    BrianT
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    That may be true for *some*, but many passages are speaking to Christians, warning them not to fall away, exhorting them to remain faithful, endure to the end, abide, remain, etc. You can't fall away from somewhere you were never at in the first place.
     
  5. MissAbbyIFBaptist

    MissAbbyIFBaptist
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    Oh, so your saying a person cain't backslide? You know that when a person gets saved, they are still able to sin, but that does NOT break the salvation. My soul, if just out of today, when I sined, no matter what it was, I had to get saved again, I would have been on my knees at least three times this morning begging for salvation! Yeah when we sin, if we don't get right, we get away from God in the since aren't as close to Him as we were...but that dosn't mean we are lost again.
    Jesus was offered ONCE for sin. That's why it's no longer practiced to sacrifice animals, because Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. If God forgave my past sins on Calvary, what makes anyone think He didn't forgive the future sins? He had to take on all sin at Calvary, because if He didn't how would God look upon us since He can't look upon sin? His blood paid my price at Calvary, and it was settled long ago. The night I got saved, and accepted what happend at Calvary, and repented, I was saved to the uttermost. God is the same yesterday, now and forever. If He loved me then, He loves me now.
    If someone is serving a God that can't keep them saved, I have to ask "What kind of god are you serving?!" God promised in Titus 1:2 that He couldn't lie, and if in His word He promised we have eternal life when we get saved {eternal of course meaning everlasting!} then how in the world can someone reason us losing it?! And if someone has doubts about the Bible being true, then I'm afraid they can't be helped, because the Bible is the foundation of all we beleive. The main thing being salvation. If someone can't trust God's Word on salvation, they might as well not trust it for anything.
    But I'll say this, I'm serving the One who able to hold onto me forever. I'm His, and He is mine, and nothing and no one can change that.
    ~Miss Abby [​IMG]
     
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Can God lose our salvation?

    Probably.

    Will God lose our salvation?

    No.
     
  7. BrianT

    BrianT
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    No, not at all. I don't believe individual sins negate salvation. I'm just saying that if it was impossible to fall away, scripture wouldn't warn against falling away.

    I don't believe God "can't" keep you saved. He can - but I also believe he doesn't hold us against our will. God is like a husband that will always love his wife and never leave her. He even will prevent anyone else from kidnapping her, snatching her out of his hand. That doesn't mean the wife can't leave the husband of her own accord. God doesn't put us in a cage when we're saved, just as a husband doens't put his wife in a cage to prevent her from leaving.

    Yes, nothing separates us from God's love. A man can still love his wife even if she leaves him. In the parable of the prodigal son, the father never stopped loving his son - even when the father let the son leave.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    What a horrible sinner I am. [​IMG]

    What a wonderful God I have. Er, Who has ME! [​IMG]
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Of course a believer can fall away. That is not at issue at all. What is at issue is if a believer falls away does God lose his soul. Two of the passages I quoted speak directly to this situation:

    1. "Though he fall he shall not be utterly cast down; for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand."


    2. "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his."

    When God's people fall they are not cast aside. Rather God upholds them and ultimately restores them.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. 4study

    4study
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    Either God keeps His word or He doesn't. In the latter case, he is no God at all. The decison one makes on this matter puts this case to rest.
     
  11. Me2

    Me2
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    Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
    Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him,
    Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
    Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
    Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
    Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


    what I understand from reading this is that if anyone believes that their God
    is not capable of being sovereign above all others will and that their
    God has become incapable of completing his intended plans:

    are mocking God and cannot be Jesus disciple.

    Gods Plans of Saving all before the foundation of this world were set into motion by a promise of Faith by God

    Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    or:

    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    and later expressed in 1 timothy.

    1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
    1Ti 2:2 For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    did you ever wonder when Jesus was declared Lord over his creation? in eternity past? in eternity future ?
    before all were created, or after all have faced their death?

    God creates by faith..everything that is, and was planned, created, formed, and expressed in its spirit state, completely even to its finality before time was ever created. Jesus was slain..by faith. all mankind was created, existed, died and faced their God in judgement, by faith, in God.

    God is perfect..everything he does is perfect.
    he treats all perfectly..
    (not by what man deserves but what God judges as right for all perfectly and equally.)

    wether it is an obedient child who is comfortably resting in Their saviors faith,
    or a disobedient child who has fallen out of a close relationship with their savior and God.

    or it be a believer who has been chosen before the foundation of the world to become a son of God and an ambassador of Christ.. the "firstfruits" of Jesus. by the sovereign will of their God.

    or even to the inclusion of the rest of Humanity.

    all are saved in due course of the saviors plans.

    Mark, each of the original scriptures that you posted has an intended target audience in mind.

    most times when "falling away" are mentioned in scripture, are directed to children in the faith who are still "dead in christ" and havent come to a full understanding and revelation of Christ being raised from the dead by His father by faith. they are told to look toward the finishing of their faith...

    there are three groups that the scriptures are focused towards. obedient children , whom are continually admonished to hold onto the things of God (until it is proven through a trial of faith by God)

    the disobedient children who refuse to believe by faith, the truths that the holy spirit is teaching them. and turn to their own carnal and foolish imaginations and eventual sins. (rom 1:17-19)

    and the eventual children of faith, who successfully move through progressive stages of sanctification and trials of faith to newer and higher comprehension and understanding of faith in God. at this level (young man) the holy spirit seals the believer..

    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    (this is a young mans comprehension. not a childs)

    and this believers response of faith is seen through the declaration, Jesus is Lord...
    (1 john 2:12-14)(1 cor 12:3)

    Me2
     

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