Can man desire to be reconciled to God?

Billy Graham said something like, I'd be happy if 5% of those who go forward were really saved. I think there are two kinds of "seeking God" 1) selfishly in that if they get God and are saved then it is finished Im good and 2) the kind where one earnestly seeks God, is saved, and endures to the end through a real conversion

 

And your theology would make us believe that everyone who went to the crusade and came in front were able to do so of their own accord, no thanks to God, because God created an unpardonable error when He said that "there is none that seeketh" since He had it written before the time of Billy Graham.

And please, find a picture of a small church, non-descript, perhaps in a rural area, pastored by an unknown man.
Not an "evangelistic" rally in a major city, a rally preceded by advertising and plug-ins in talk show, with the whole shebang of choirs and known singers like Beverly Shea, whose main speaker "rubs elbows" with kings and presidents and prime ministers and hailed by even mainstream media, and then maybe you will sound believable.

Posting a picture like this to prove your point makes you seem.....juvenile.

And your theology is a pile of bull dung elevating man to a position he does not and never will deserve.

There, skan, helllloooo ?

See what I mean ?

 

If only 5% are saved, then Calvinism is false because Calvinism teaches God's grace is irresistable.

If unsaved unregenerate people are so hateful toward God, then why would they come in the first place? If I hated God as you say the unregenerate do, you couldn't drag me to one of these events.

 

What a pathetically insufficient understanding of the doctrine, and you imply in some of your posts to have the scholarly ability to research and understand human law ?

And how do you know those who came to that rally were all unsaved, unregenerate people ?

How do you know that ?

Well, you're you, and they're they. You can't compare yourself to them.

 

I would say that the 5% were the ones who actually received God's saving grace. When someone cries or professes Christ, it doesnt mean that they have received God's Son.

There could be a number of reasons why they come. There are those who didnt want to go but did, those who wanted to go to see billy graham, those who are actually saved, and those who are interested in God. There are probably more, but mere interest in God isn't what it means to seek God. Now I wouldn't disagree with the fact that maybe they knew a little about Jesus and God used that to draw them, or something similar.

On page two I tried to list my reasons for my conviction. I was listening to John Piper last week and he preached on John 6. He showed how Jesus fed 5,000 men and only 11 were left at the end of chapter 6. That isnt what convinced me, but I thought that was an interesting thing.

 

:thumbs:
Good analysis, my man.
Good analysis.

 

No, this photo proves your doctrine false, it is as simple as that. I don't care how much advertizing you do, if a man truly hates God, he is not going to come.

Anybody who has ever been out on visitation knows that not everybody invited comes. Oh, some will lie and say they will come, but you won't see them Sunday morning. Why? Because they agreed just to get rid of you, they really didn't want to come.

And I have never said that people aren't drawn by God. They are. Where we differ is that I believe the unsaved, unregenerate have the ability to respond to God's drawing. You don't.

If Calvinism is true, every single person in this crowd would have to be regenerated to have the desire to come hear God's word, and every single one of them would trust Christ and be saved. They have to, because God's grace is irresistable.

So, as I said before, to believe Calvinism a person must delude themselves into denying reality.

 

Pure speculation on your part. I'm telling you, if I hated God the way Calvinism says unregenerate man hates God, you are not going to get me to come.

You see here what your doctrine causes you to do? You are having to rationalize away the truth you see with your own eyes. You are creating excuses to fool your own self to deny reality.

 

And I still say your theology is for the insanely unregenerate.

 

I was also thinking that people looking for God and can't find Him (The God of Israel) is another sign of God having to come to find them. Billions are interested in God and there are millions of religions (most cults). Without God coming and revealing Himself, even Scripture will lead them to an idol.

 

If unsaved, unregenerate people are interested in God, then the doctrines of Calvinism are false. Calvinism teaches that the unregenerate have no desire or interest in God whatsoever.

 

Which is basically what is meant by Total Depravity.
Spiritual inability to come to God on His terms.
Spiritual inability to please God.
Blinded.
The unregenerate is religious, really, except that their religion is one of wanting to be "as gods".
Cain's sacrifice was unacceptable to God, because it did not meet God's standards: blood, and life.
Abel's was.
The question is : Did able know this on his own. If he did, why not Cain ?

 

again, pathetic ignorance of the doctrine.
your mouth works faster than your brain, really.

well, gotta run, be with family.
Merry Christmas, one and all.

 

I would examine then what I mean by "hate God"

I "don't" mean that everyone is kicking and cursing God

I mean that everyone is so warped in idolatry (root of sin after the dark heart) that even though they may think they love God and many think that they know and follow Jesus; they actually despise His ways and at heart they disobey "blindly" and continue in idolatry. Example: the girl that has been going to church on Sunday, acknowledges that Jesus is her Savior, but yet continues in sin (because she loves it) and serves other gods without even having a clue or being disturbed.

 

You are absolutely correct. And this photo I presented proves that unsaved man can and does respond to God's calling. But the Calvinists must deny reality that they can clearly see with their own eyes.

So, if ever there was an argument that men are blinded, Calvinism is a fantastic example of this.

 

chew on these and spit them out if it burns your tongues:

Romans 3:9-12 - What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.

Jeremiah 17:9 - "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?"

Ecclesiastes 9:3 - Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Have fun twisting them to prove man is basically good and not totally depraved.
Happy New Year.

 

If that is what Calvinist's think (I dont think that proper teaching does) then I disagree with them. I define a true desire differently than just a simple interest. I dont think a doctrinally sound Calvinist would disagree. To have a simple/half desire is like saying I like this part of you God, but I reject that. To desire must mean to fully like Him regardless of what He says or does, but for who He is. What He says and does are good, but even if He destroys me and my family, I will honor Him fully because He deserves no less.

a true heart desire to live for and serve God with all of your heart mind and soul in the name and freedom of Jesus Christ is simply a different than to being interested in God.

Interests in God or a god classifies tons of people
but
Desiring the God of Israel with all your being classifies only those that know and love Him and I would say are born again/saved by Jesus blood.