Can/should Calvinists & Non-cals cooperate?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 12strings, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. 12strings

    12strings
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    ***I am purposefully putting this in the General Baptist section, not the Theology Section***

    Assuming that neither side is going to convince the other to defect, Can and should Baptists who disagree on these issues seek to fellowship and cooperate with differing baptists?

    Herald made a good case that churches who are solidly calvinist and churches who are solidly against calvinism would probably not do a lot together, other than the annual right-to-life walk or something.

    But for those of us who are in churches that have not come down strong on either side, and contain members of various persuasions, would it be better for us to split into 2 churches, or agree to disagree and continue seeking to build a church anyway?
     
  2. preachinjesus

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    Why not? We're all Christians.

    There is far more that unites us than divides us.
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    IMHO every born-again Christian is Calvinist to some degree.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    All my pastoral life, I have led churches that were dispensationalists, free-willists and not-too-sure-about-any-theologists. We got along for the sake of ministry and worship,,,,,,,,,and in Jesus.

    There is no reason I could not fellowship with any on this board, including my strong opponents in theology.

    As a pastor, I never went out of my way to offend any believer in public. I was not out to make them follow my theological belief system, but rather to grow in the Lord and in their personal walk with Jesus. If that meant biting my lips, so be it.

    Generally speaking, I don't think anyone here can say I attacked them personally. I often stated my viewpoint and left it at that. So be it, we can fellowship if that is what we want.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS. I am prolly as strong a Calvinist and amillennialist as they come!!!
     
  5. seekingthetruth

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    For me, it would depend on the Calvinist. I have no problem worshiping with a fellow Christian as long as they don't continually tell me how wrong my doctrine is. Or that I am in "darkness".

    I know Calvinists that only talk about the difference in our doctrines when the topic arises, and I know some that won't stop harping on me for not believing like them.

    It's funny, but IFBer's get a bad name because people consider them to be dogmatic. Well, there are some so-called "recovering fundamentalists" who are Reformed that are more dogmatic than any Hyles camp IFB preacher I have ever met. Even some here on the BB.

    But yes, I can worship with Calvinists as long as they don't continually try to convert me to Calvinism, or tell me I am "in darkness", which translates to evil.

    john
     
  6. SolaSaint

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    I was just wondering a similar type question to post. I have been reading a little of William L. Craig and James White--most arguably 2 of the best apologists of our time and White seems to be hounding Craig regarding his theological stances. I think we have much bigger targets as Christians to defend against than each other. Our Atheist enemies I'm sure are laughing when we cannot put aside our differences on how someone comes to Christ.
     
  7. HankD

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    Sure, as long as there isn't friction.

    HankD
     
  8. Berean

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    I never cease to be amazed at the flipant anamosity that is displayed when ever the subject of Calvinism.Reformation or what ever you choose to call it comes up on this board. By taking scripture out of context and picking and choosing at random you can make a strong argument for either side. But when we get to Heaven There is going to be a large group of both sides, but the largest group will be those who don't know the differance.
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    I agree completely about choosing our targets better. In my experience nobody beats up on Christians like Christians.

    One minor point, James White isn't nearly, nearly the apologist Dr Craig is and there are, IMHO, many others between the two. But I still appreciate the broader point.
     
  10. jbh28

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    Can/should Calvinists & Non-cals cooperate?


    YES!
     
  11. convicted1

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    Correct. Then after we get those mean Calvies in our church, we can give them the "Jedi mind trick", and change them into freewillers. :D J/K


    I am in agreement with this. Too many things we agree on, to keep us apart. If the lost saw us bickering against one another, then that gives the church a black eye. :tear:
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    You are correct. The recent threads on this board are an embarrassment to the board and a blight on the cause of Christ. The hatred, meanness, and vitriol toward brothers and sisters in Christ from both sides of the 'debate' is not God honouring.

    We together have a job to do and we are not going to do it by fighting over an issue that is as old as the church itself. There are no Christ-denying heretics here. I wonder where we would be if we spent as much time sharing our Christ with the world together as we do preparing to do battle here on what is supposed to be a Christian forum.
     
    #12 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2011
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Frankly I think the casims are too great & I cannot bridge them to accept a humanistic theology over a Salvation by Grace theology. I'd be interested in hearing what people like Winman & Van have to say
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    And the same applies to your side. Ive gone to two Non-Calvinist Baptist churches that have sometimes subtly & sometimes not so subtly tried to convert me & I dont appreciate it. Therefore I now go to completely Reformed churches. Guess I'm a big believer in "you go to your church & I will go to mine" thinking process.
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2011
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Good post...... Question, when someone calls another a heretic I guess your saying they are saying your a "Christ-denying heretic" Right? Then to complete the thought, they are judging your very belief in Christ as your Savior & your very salvation.

    Last question.....how can one have fellowship with those hateful people?
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Not an exact interpretation. My point was that since no one I know posting here is of that ilk, we are all brothers in Christ and should treat each other accordingly.

    Fellowship is impossible unless it goes both ways.
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This is the kind of spirit I am talking about. The idea that 'if you don't believe like I do your theology is humanistic' does nothing to honour Christ or bring unity to the body of Christ.

    All through history men of God have disagreed on this topic, and still found a way to love each other and work together to advance the cause of Christ.

    And the bad thing the other side with 'God sends men to hell' is just as bad.
     
  18. quantumfaith

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    preachinjesus, I am with you regarding William Lane Craig, setting aside any theological differences between the two, Craig is by far a much broader and deeper "thinker" than White. He (Craig) is not a single issue apologist, whereas most of White's apologetic work centers around defending his theological framework.

    I highly recommend Craig's work, Understanding God's Relationship to Time.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well Im Salvation Theology/DOG oriented, so if you support a theology that is not exclusively God-centered but is distorted in the direction of the self, dont expect me to fellowship with you. We have one thing in common, that we believe in Christ, but so does the Catholic the 7 Day Adventist & Mitt Romney tells me so does the Mormon.
     
  20. preacher4truth

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    I am going to say this and take at as you will.

    There is a battle here obviously between cals/non-cals.

    Take a look, there is at least one person who's objective is solely to attack calvinism and discredit it. There is a precedent being set also in this objective that uses an unjust balance.

    I've said on several occasions that I accept non-cals as brothers. Accept, not tolerate, OK?

    The thing I find amazing is the non-cals useage of name calling that goes unchecked. Yes, I'll get to the cals part. Take a look around. From the "H word," (which has been allowed) to our preaching is darkness, (which was allowable) to hypocrites (allowable), arrogant, codescending, liars, ignorant (allowable for non-cals), and more. These lines remain unsnipped and left alone.

    Personally I've used this exact line once "prove it otherwise you're lying" which was snipped, and to which I've received threats months afterward to get more infractions for this again. I've also used the word ignorant, as in this context "obviously they are ignorant of what it teaches." I received infraction for this with a warning in PM. But the same word and even in defamatory context was allowable at the same time from non-cals. But what I find seriously interesting is that there are several non-cals who have responses as of right now in many places using this language, and seemingly doing so in glee, knowing they will not get an infraction, thus they continue on to use them.

    Here is the precedent that is attempting to take hold: "Non-cals, you can use language the cals cannot, I will allow you to, and I will make certain the cals don't get by with nearly as much."

    Calvinists on the other hand, certainly there have been some of the same, including some from myself.

    Let me ask you, if there are going to be rules, why does one side sit there, right here and now with allowable slanders, and remain untouched?

    The problem comes in when I see numerous non-cal brethren on a much longer leash at the same time I, and others (cals) receive infractions for the slightest things, while I look within the same threads, and the non-cals come right out with the name calling, slander, defamatory and inflammatory comments and they remain as they are, untouched, unsnipped.

    And what of a thread not cal/non-cal related wherein a person has called a sweet sister in Christ a liar on NUMEROUS occassions, and yet, it remains. I was told that word is not allowed. Wow. Well, take a gander, this word is being tossed around as of right now in calling a cal such, among other words I was told are against BB rules.

    To top this off, harrassement in PM for me to pay for past infractions again? Seriously? This is the way a Cal should be harrassed by an non-cal, while I look around, and see multitudes of slanders by the non-cals? Yes, multitudes.

    We can all sit here and pretend how beautiful it is and that it isn't true. We can play like all of a sudden we will walk in harmony. Not while this sits there untouched.

    My objective has been to show this unjust balance, but it goes on as if all is grand and as if the balance is equal and is met with much apathy.

    It's not even close in balance. Several Cal brothers won't frequent BB near as often due to this exact situation of being bombed with infractions for the slightest thing, with great subjectivity in decisions to do so being the underlying factor.

    As I said prior, I accept non-cals as brothers. However, I do not accept their unbridled behavior as reflective of a Christian, nor do I accept the fact they can use derogatory terms cals cannot, and seeing this allowed to go on, and going on right now, unsnipped, and 100% acceptable to one...I don't see this as Christian behavior in the least.

    Count me as an enemy for telling the truth, no matter to me. I've been called much worse in public forum, and in PM and it is allowed to stick, and allowed to stay, and it is there now towards myself and other cals in general. Anything I may say back meets stern warnings in PM, even when it doesn't break any BB rules. Yep, an precedent is in the objective and is under construction: "Non-cals, say what you want, if a cal says that, I'll get him!" It's going on right now.

    My suggestion? Get a cal brother as a moderator who will police the non-cal side and equal this out. Or get a non-biased moderator (virtually impossible to gauge) who will spend the time handing out "tickets" to all sides, and who will not harrass one in PM over past "crimes."

    - Peace and love to all
     
    #20 preacher4truth, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2011

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