can Someone Commit Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    or was this just done during the ministry of Jesus?

    If today, is it making a final willful choice to finally reject grace of God and salavtion?

    is it rejecting conviction of Holy Spirit?

    If yes, does this mean one can 'reject" irrsestible grace?
     
  2. Van

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    I believe the unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. But I think that means rejecting the authenticating miracles of Jesus and therefore choosing not to trust in Christ.
    All can be forgiven except not obtaining forgiveness in Christ.

    I believe Iresistible Grace is a mistaken view of scripture based on Matthew 23:13 where folks who were entering heaven and therefore had whatever grace was needed to enter were blocked by false teaching and therefore the grace was not irresistible.
     
  3. freeatlast

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    Yes I believe they can if they are not already saved. The passage that speaks of this does not say anything about rejecting the convicting work of the Spirit or rejecting the miracles of Jesus as being Blasphemy or that Jesus has to be present. In fact the example that is given is clearly about accusing the works of the Spirit as being of the devil. There is one more thing. If you read the passage carefully you will see that it says this;
    "And Jesus knew their thoughts." These men were not simply confused who spoke against the Spirit. This was not just off the wall thing where someone blabbed their mouth. They had every reason to know that this Man was from God and His works were of the Spirit. This is not a mistake on their part. This was a calculated event with intent to defame.
    So to Blasphemy the Spirit one must literally speak against the Spirit with understanding at what he is doing even if he does not understand the consequences.
     
    #3 freeatlast, Mar 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2011
  4. Amy.G

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    Free, I agree.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


    If a person rejects Christ until their dying day, there is only one sin that God will not forgive and that is unbelief in His Son. I believe to continually reject the drawing and conviction by the Holy Spirit (Who leads us to Christ) is blasphemy against Him.

    Because Jesus said that God will forgive any sin but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it is the same sin as rejection of the Savior.
     
  5. freeatlast

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    Sorry sister I think you miss-read what I wrote.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    I did? Can you explain please?
     
  7. webdog

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    I believe this was in regards to the Pharisees witnessing Jesus' miracles and attributing them to satan. That is the immediate context and the view that I believe makes the most sense, meaning it is no longer committed today.
     
  8. jbh28

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    It is as webdog said(WHAT?!??!?!?!!, we agree :)) It's not rejecting Christ for salvation.

    It's a difficult subject. If you are worried about, truth in Jesus as your savior. No Christian will do this sin.


    And this has absolutely nothing to do with "irrsestible" grace(whatever that is:)) nor irresistible grace
     
  9. freeatlast

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    You said that unbelief was the only sin not forgiven. I agree that unbelief is not forgiven but unbelief is never stated as a sin. What happens is that they die in that sin or unbelief and remain as they already were, lost. The Blasphemy however is the only sin stated as not forgivable and it clearly states in scripture it is to literally speak against the Spirit and the example of how that can happen is given. This is not about rejecting God's offer of salvation. This is about doing a specific deed that closes the door forever of any possibility of salvation happening.
    Once this happens the person will never again have any thought or desire for anything of God. No man is ever drawn to God on their own. God does the drawing and He will not draw this person. The Spirit does the convicting and He will not convict this person. They are without any hope and could care less.
     
  10. Van

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    As to the idea that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be done today, I disagree. Each on of us must believe in our heart that Jesus rose from the dead. If you do not, then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in my understanding.
     
  11. jbh28

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    Then, according to your understanding, no one can be saved. If blasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, and not believing in Jesus is that, then you cannot be saved. why don't we look at the passage and see what it says.

    Maybe you need to clarify what you were saying

    Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
    (Matthew 12:22-32 ESV)

    "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing to Satan the work of God
     
    #11 jbh28, Mar 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2011
  12. Van

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    Reply to Jbh28

    I do not think the dots connect.

    First you say blasphemy is attributing the miracles of Jesus to Satan, and then you say no one can be saved if you do not believe Christ's miracles. As long as a person draws a breath, they can be saved by coming to their senses and trusting in Christ. It does not matter if yesterday a person rejected Jesus and thought he had not rose from the grave by the power of the Holy Spirit. But if a person rejects Jesus to the grave, then they die unpardonable. That is my understanding.
     
  13. Alcott

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    While this is often a confujsing subject, I think many try too hard to simplify it by saying rejection of Jesus = blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But Jesus said to those who attributed his miraculous works to Satan that blasphemy against him (Jesus) can be forgiven, but-- and there is obviously some difference here-- blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.

    Actually there can be a lot of twisted doctrines and conclusions based on this. For example, if "once-saved-always-saved" is true, then if persecutors take a Christian in and put him on a torture rack and demand that he say the works of Jesus were of Satan, then he would not be able to say that no matter what. And a further application of this would apply to what's going on in the pentecostal cirlces today... anyone who criticizes what they are doing may be taking a chance of blaspheming the Holy Spirit-- or at least, with such words they encourage a nonbeliever to mock or criticize it, and thus they speak against the Spirit before they are saved. On the other hand, so many things we call "miracles" are quite obviously not such-- getting a job after praying for one, having your cold clear up after only a week, getting the right minister in a position-- all of these I have heard called "miracles," but is, or might, that be attributing something to the Holy Spirit which is nothing but normal progress of things? Even saying God is responsible for these positive things does not mean they are miracles unless miracle has no real meaning... in which case those who attributed Jesus' works to Satan should not be guilty of an unforgivable sin, as there was nothing to attribute but perhaps imagination.

    Finally, without looking it up, I know not all 3 gospels which tell about this use the word "blasphemy;" one just says "He that speaks a word against the Holy Spirit..." That seems to change the whole concept. Consider Peter and his vision of the sheet coming down from heaven. The Spirit told him to kill and eat whatever of the 'unclean' animals he wishes. He replied "Not so, Lord..." How is that not speaking a word against the Holy Spirit? He took immediate exception to the Spirit's instructions.
     
  14. jbh28

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    That's what I said
    I didn't say that. Where did I say that?
    Of course, I did say that.
    That's true, but not what the text here is saying about blaspheming the spirit. Read the text.
     
  15. Van

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    Remember Christ said if you do not believe in my words, believe in my miracles which includes rising from the grave.
     
  16. Amy.G

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    You have a good point. I think I need to rethink my thoughts. :laugh:
     
  17. Alcott

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    Perhaps a corollary of this approach is the deduction that everyone has one-- perhaps only one-- chance in life to accept the gospel. For the "rich young ruler" it was when he asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life; for Saul/Paul, it was on the road to Damascus when he heard the voice and was blinded; for Peter, it was when Jesus asked him personally, "Who do you say that I am?" (disregard that the next thing that happened was he was supposed to have been made the first 'pope,' then Jesus called him "Satan"); and for the Pharisees, it was when they saw Jesus drive out evil spirits, and there was no denying what he did, so to keep themselves in a 'superior' position they called his work that of Satan.

    I'm inclined to not believe what I just wrote, but for myself it seems too similar. When I was 10 years old at a county-wide youth rally and I had an urge to forward in the invitation which I tried to resist, but could not. Even though I knew things would get complicated and the driver of the car I came in might not find me (that did happen). Instead, I went with others to a room and a counselor talked and prayed with me and no 'complications' of such things mattered. Might that have been my only chance to become a Christian? I don't know. Scripture does not teach that in just such a way systematically. But I never had such an urging in my life before or since. It this idea is the case, then it's unmistakably the Holy Spirit urging us, so if we turn against that when it's so plain, no matter how the experience comes, is that what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is? That 'takes care' of the question posed that if being a nonbeliever is such blasphemy, then no one can be saved.
     
  18. freeatlast

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    Not according to scripture. Blashpemy of the Spirit is a literal speaking against the Spirit by atributing Him as being an unclean spirit.

    Mar 3:28-30 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme
    But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
    Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit
     
  19. Van

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    According to Scripture

    I think folks pretty much agree that all sins and blasphemies will be forgiven if a person is saved. And how are we saved? Through faith. And what are we to believe. We are to believe in His "name" or what He was known for. And what were these? Two things: One Jesus is the Son of God, who existed with God and is God, who became flesh and dwelt among us. And two, Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One, or in Daniel's words, the Son of Man.

    Now how are we to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Are we to believe His words alone? Nope. We are to believe His miracles. And are we doing that when we believe Jesus accomplished those miracles by an unclean spirit? Nope.

    Thus by logical necessity, we cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and obtain forgiveness because that means we reject Jesus as God's Messiah, for example if we do not believe in our hearts Jesus was raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit, but instead we believe by a power not of God.
     
  20. freeatlast

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    It really does not matter what men believe or agree on. What matters is what the Lord says and He says they will not be forgiven. blaspheming the Spirit is NOT rejecting Christ. It is literally speaking against the Spirit. No man ever seeks the Lord. Man is sought by the Lord. I believe if a person does this sin then the Lord would no longer seek him out and he would never be saved. However how this person is kept lost may be debatable, but not that they can be saved based on scripture.
     
    #20 freeatlast, Mar 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2011

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