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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Yeshua1, Feb 5, 2014.
what is REALLY meant and taught by that?
As that it gets wrongly understood on the Board at times!
The question reminds me of some personal testimonies I used to hear along the lines of "I accepted Jesus as my Savior when I was 10 years old, but I didn't really make Him my Lord until several years later."
As I understand Lordship salvation, you can't separate the two things. If He's not your Lord, how can he be your Savior?
is it a growing process though? Another way to state progressive sauctification, as I know Jesus is not Lord over ALL my life even now, as still gettingconfirmed into his image by Him daily process!
John MacArthur has said on numerous occasions, and also written in his books:
Jesus is either Lord of all, or he's not Lord at all
Lordship Salvation is nothing but Arminianism in disguise.
And believe me, this is not just a flippant remark. I was raised Arminian, then embraced Lordship Salvation.
Look at all the issues and scriptures they debate against each other, the two camps simply use differing methods to reach the same ultimate conclusions
There has to be a clear distinction between someone who wants nothing more than fire insurance and someone who actually has a heart for the Lord.
please elaborate further.
Actually the bible answers that question.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
There is no such thing as almost or partly coming to repentance. If a person has not surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus over their life they have not been saved. Now getting done what He calls us to is another issue. That is called sanctification.
Asinner who receives Jesus thru faith is NOT required to also have Jesus under full lordship from point of view that he has been put over ALL aspects of ones life right at conversion, for there is spiritual growth, and there is conforming process, as there are areas still not even aware of now not fully inder his control fully...
H is in position my Lord at salvation, but in practical while here on earth, still working towards his full lordship now!
I think Lordship salvation is true salvation that as Rev. Mitchell said, they have a heart truly for the Lord. Those that only see Jesus as their savior always refer to a past experience or a act they did years ago.
You do not know what Lordship is.
I imagine you must count me among those who cant quite get their arms around it either Rev. I've observed the term many times on this board but watching replies posted it seems people are talking around each other on the topic. Its not a topic I've done any research on because frankly, haven't heard a whole lot about it. Could you elaborate?
I believe Lordship salvation as many define it is a serious Biblical error. Using Scripture such as Luke 14:33 in application to a new believer, one who has just received Christ, is nonsense; absurd. What new believer coming out of RCC or a non-Christian background is going to get saved, and then the next day be a missionary fully prepared to preach the gospel in a foreign nation (forsake all that he has; bear his cross; deny himself; follow Christ; hate his father, mother, sister [i.e. put Christ before them]), from the first day of their salvation?
I don't know of anyone who has done that?
In fact I don't know of many Christians that have made Christ Lord of their life to this point in time, according to this philosophy. If they had they would be more obedient to the Great Commission. Evangelism would be taking place in their own communities at a far greater rate than it is now. More missionaries would be sent to the foreign mission field.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" is not confined to just the block on which you live. It is the world. "Lift up your eyes and behold the fields that are white unto harvest."
The Scripture posted above is related to discipleship, not salvation.
If any man will be my disciple, let him....
Let him take up his cross;
If he does not forsake all... he cannot be my disciple.
It has nothing to do with salvation; everything to do with discipleship, and sanctification.
In this respect the concept of Lordship Salvation is entirely unbiblical.
there is such terminology, its that one is either a baby christian, carnal, or else matured one!
ALL would be justified before God, but varying aspects/levels of sauctification!
Romans 10:9-10 gives clear indication of this principle.
Lordship is not about mastering perfection. It is about desire and intent that from now on God rules your life and not you. It is about desiring God and a relationship with Him.
This is in contrast to those who care nothing for God and his Holiness but do want to escape the flames of hell.
That has nothing to do with what I just said.
No......Jesus is fully Lord and Christ right now.The question is not about sanctification . Jesus is Lord of all......unbelievers say-we will not have this man reign over us..lk19
believers obey from the heart that form of doctrine delivered unto them.Of course there is a growth in grace, but such growth does not make Jesus any more LORD of ALL than he is.
In the same way the heathen who rage against him now....will bow anyway at the white throne.
I understand your belief, but based on scritpure you are incorrect so I choose scripture. There is no such thing as Him being almost or partially Lord and a person being saved. I believe that is part of the falling away the church is into.
I understand but if you are not His disciple who's are you? If you are not His disciple nor are you saved. I simply believe what the Lord says.
DHK.....You are missing the heart of the issue.
We do not make Jesus Lord.....He is Lord by God's eternal design.You or anyone else does not "make" anything....
DHK.....to get to truth...we must start right here;
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
That has settled the "issue". there is no issue at all.He is Lord over all,new believers, old believers, unbelievers,angelic beings, the whole creation.
The only thing that changes is a persons growth in grace and holiness, or unbelief and reprobation.
There is no.....IF THEY HAD. there is obedience or disobedience.We are mostly falling way short of what we know to do.
Agreed...this is what we are to be about.Our failure changes nothing about what we are responsible to do.
It is both ...it is count the cost....to be my disciple means it will cost you everything, holding nothing back. there is not a day that goes by that we are not to learn and grow and serve.....more than we did the day before.
Again our growth does not change Jesus Christ as Lord....24/7 throughout eternity.
You are confusing two issues that is why you see it as you do.:wavey:
Thank You.....and I agree:thumbs: