Featured can someone who hold to Lordship salvation define it?

I'm not sure if you're stating this as being the Lordship Salvation position, but it is not what Lordship Salvation teaches.

Just listen to John MacArthur's Works To You radio program, or read his books like "The Gospel According to Jesus"

Lordship Salvation is about objective works, not a subjective change in disposition. In the LS salvation view, someone who merely has "thoughts" and "desires" of holiness, but does not translate that into actual good works, has a spurious faith.

It's those on the periphery of Lordship Salvation who water down the objective aspect in order to cling to whatever assurance they once felt. Because they know that if they really examine their own life, it will not cut the mustard.

So clinging to Lordship Salvation on an intellectual level, then denying the nuts and bolts of it.

"Well, I must be alright, because I still "think" about God a lot. I still seem to have desires, and when my conscience is quickened, it must be the Holy Spirit reminding me that I'm a child of God, and that my behavior isn't up to snuff."

Lordship Salvation teaches no such subjectivity of thought. You are either literally, actively, practically towing the line, or you are not in Christ.


But, even Mac contradicts himself at points, like when he teaches on Romans 7.

It is a confusing mess, rattling people with a blurring of the distinction between faith and works. And the only solace is to turn to a subjective view of "thoughts" rather than "works"

 

I have the book I know what it teaches, I hold to it. You are wrong. Every Tom, Sam, and Sally who does not hold to it thinks they know what those of us who do teaches.

Try listening and stop judging.

 

Thank you Mac Daddy:tonofbricks:

 

Interisting analogy ...in a convoluted way:smilewinkgrin:. Now....defragg!:laugh:

 

I'm not judging wrongly, so why should I stop judging? I think you need a refresher course on what Mac teaches, from his Works to You website:

Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Pet. 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.

Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Cor. 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Gal. 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Rom. 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matt. 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Eph. 2:10), and continue in the faith (Col. 1:21-23; Heb. 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.

Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3; Rom. 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven.

Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.

Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3).


Then, after all that OBJECTIVITY about works being the real test of faith, genuine believers obey, turning from sin, he offers ONE sentence to inject enough subjectivity to give him and his sheeple an out:

Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith


So please don't patronize me as someone who doesn't understand his teachings. I was a Lordship Salvation proponent for several years.

You are seriously misrepresenting the Lordship Salvation position when you put a primary focus on subjective "desire" and "willingness" and diminish the actual position of objective obedience to Christ, and a life fully surrendered to Him in thought and deed

 

That's good stuff there, Yeshua1

I would probably have never seen that parallel. Kudos

 

You're right. It treads very close to the Seventh Day Adventist position of Imparted Righteousness

I forgot to post the link to Mac's website

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A114

That way, it's not second hand information

 

Oh noooooooo. This is puritanism at its finest isn't it!?!

'Y'.......don't say we didn't try to warn ya.

 

It's a futile exercise of the mind, that's what it is.

It leads to self-righteous hypocrisy, sweeping one's own faults under the rug, lack of transparency and accountability.

Believe me, I was there. I had no desire to tell someone how I'd been living lately, because I knew that even my best attempts at righteousness were nothing but filthy rags. It keeps believers walking in the flesh, always focusing on their behavior, and pointing out the faults of those who aren't towing the line

The only lords in Lordship Salvation are the teachers who lord over their unsuspecting subjects.

Only the strongest of wills can muster the pharisaical girth to endure the outward perfection that is at the heart of this teaching. Outwardly, whitewashed tombs, inwardly full of dead men's bones

Self appointed fruit inspectors, always in the wrong orchard, looking for the wrong fruit

 

And you already know my pet peeves. Ding dong the wicked witch, the mean old witch, the wicked witch......ROFL. Man you just gotta laugh! :thumbs:

 

:thumbs:
lol

 

There is a good article why, what is taught as "Lordship Salvation" is not Biblical. Here is the one paragraph on "Carnal Christians."

I would encourage you to read the entire article.

http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2011/03/what-is-wrong-with-lordship-salvation.html#

 

Lordship salvation is the idea that belief in Christ for eternal life is not enough. Zane Hodges wrote a great book called "Absolutely Free" in which he critiques Lordship Salvation and particularly MacArthurs book. It's a great read and is still in print if I'm not mistaken. Hodges taught NT at DTS for 27 years and wrote some really great book. Toward the end of his life (RIP) he took a stand against LS.

 

And like clockwork I agree with DHK on the issue

 

Good article

I was asked once, if the bible teaches such a thing as normal Christians vs. sold out, totally committed Christians.

My response was:
First need to clear up a misconception.
What some would call a sold out, totally committed Christian, the bible would call normal.
And what some would call a "normal" Christian, the bible would call a messed up Christian.

There's something wrong with a Christian who is not totally committed, or totally trusting and following Christ.

It seems that we're accused of teaching that it's ok to be a messed up Christian. That it's ok to be carnally minded, or that it's ok to just be living life without a hopeful trust in Christ as the center of our being.

Far from the truth. We should all think nothing of this life, and count ourselves as unworthy servants. I am far from where I need to be. But I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.

And scripture is clear that not every believer is normal. If every believer is "sold out" (I never liked that term), then why all the scriptures speaking of failure?

I've heard "That's addressing false Christians"

In other words, unbelievers. Well, I never knew that so much Christian instruction would be written to unbelievers.

Easy believism? Not even hardly. Believing in Christ, without any help from us, is the most humbling experience a person can go through. It is not easy to come as a wretched sinner and rely wholly upon Christ for salvation.

 

DHK

I feel we made progress on this thread.I have read this article through and can respond to it if you want me to.
Overall the case he attempts to make ....I have never heard any RB suggest these ideas. Calvinists do not set up certain conditions and pre requisites as this article suggests.
Obviously i see this issue different, but am thankful you posted this link so I can understand the fears some have of the biblical teaching.

I will not go over the article in detail, unless you want me to.I can answer it thoroughly however it would branch out a bit wider than the point in contention.
I am glad we were able to agree in part.

This is a valid concern...he openly speaks of it.Whatever view a person holds to....excessive worldliness is not a good sign, or condition for a professed believer to be in.