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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SovereignGrace, Sep 3, 2015.
Yes? No? What say ye?
I started this poll because in another thread DHK stated that unregenerate fallen creation can seek after God without His assistance.
I want to get everybody's thoughts and/or opinions concerning this.
You need to get the title of the poll right, I think. I'm a bit confused.
'There is none who understands;
there is none who seeks after God.' (Romans 3:11). That seems rather clear.
Not to some it is not.
What I meant by the poll is can a sinner seek the Lord without being drawn. Sorry if that confused everybody.
Care to vote? Please?
Can someone correct the poll question from ' with' to 'without'? Thanks.
No one can come to Jesus without the Father drawing him. (John 6:44)
It should be noted that those who are drawn can resist and/or ultimately reject God.
Regarding the contradictory poll question: yes, people can seek God with His assistance.
No more than a dead man can get up and call 911.
I meant 'without' and not 'with'. That was my gaffe.
As 1 Cor. 2:14 has it :"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
Ephesians 2:1 speaks of being dead in transgressions and sins. However, then in verses 5 and 6:"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even we were dead in transgressions --it is by grace you have been saved.
Colossians 2:13 restates the same truth :"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins."
The great transition from death to life. He made us alive. God caused the transfer --the transaction. It's all of God --from start to finish.
He is the author of our salvation (Heb. 2:10).
He called us "out of darkness into his wonderful light." (See also Eph. 5:8 and Acts 26:18)
Colossians 1:13 tells us that He "has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves."
But all this good news from the Word of God just rankles some people who practically deify their own will-power. They glorify their mythological "free-will" saying that God had little to do with it --it was their superior intelligence, and keen perception that brought them into the Kingdom. How fooish.
For Calvinists the definition of 'drawing', is "to drag".
Yes, people can seek God without assistance from God. They won't find him, but they can seek. Just look at all the unregenerate attending liberal churches. Before you Calvinists rip into me, realize that these lost people going to lost churches are seeking God.
However, people cannot become believers without God drawing them.
Everyone agrees the Father must draw a person before they will trust in Christ. The issue is really a non-issue. A certain sect redefines words to pour their doctrine into scripture. Thus draw means enabled by irresistible grace. But that definition is found nowhere in the lexicons. If draw is defined as attract but not compel by God's lovingkindness, then no one seeks Christ without being drawn.
Not according to these verses they can't and take notice of all the "I wills" in this scripture and who is performing the work!... This applies to both Jew and Gentile.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments.... Brother Glen
Neither of these verses are speaking about the inability to seek God and trust in Christ unless regenerated. They are both speaking of regeneration, but do not address how God chooses someone to regenerate. 2 Thess. 2:13 does address the issue and says He chooses folks for salvation through faith in the truth. Thus faith before regeneration!!!
Claims like the above where "A" is proven, and then "B" is claimed to be proven, will not cut the mustard.
these lost people going to lost churches are seeking God... How do you know these people are lost?... Remember the scripture plainly states man looks on the outward appearance... Where does God look?... He looks on the heart!... Now unless you have the ability to look on that mans heart who are you to judge who is saved or lost?... I believe that Jesus Christ will save ALL the Father has given him and not lose a one, just as scripture states!... No one according to my understanding of scripture will be Left Behind... Brother Glen
Because years ago I was one of them. Rarely did you hear the true Gospel in the liberal Lutheran church I grew up in.
Really!... Could it be they thought the same thing of you?... Brethren on here are to quick to judge another man... This board runs rampant with judgement... Use to be a moderator on the C/A Forum so I know!... Brother Glen
I'm not judging any individual people. I'm making an observation that the true Gospel was not preached there. It was regeneration by water baptism and forgiveness of sins via the sacrament of communion. Ask the average attendee if they were a Christian and they would say, "Of course. I was baptized as an infant and I'm a regular church goer." Given that testimony, do you think this person is saved?
I disagree!... Won't discuss it here as this topic belongs in the C/A Forum!... Since you say God chooses to regenerate you must be speaking of the doctrine of Election?... That also belongs in the C/A Forum!... Brother Glen