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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2013.
professing as in adhering strictly to Rome beliefs and practices?
Sure...that's the doctrine of regeneration. It has nothing to do with your religion.
can Those professing Catholic Doctrines be saved?
professing as in adhering strictly to Rome beliefs and practices?
Yeah. The cross covers even that.
Not if they're trusting in the above ^^^^ for salvation. No.
Baptismal regeneration condemns, not saves.
Salvation by works is a road to hell not heaven.
It is your continual misunderstanding of Catholic teaching that is in error. The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine of salvation by works and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God's grace--completely unmerited by works--that one is saved.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen that posted on a forum!
the catholic church DOES NOT teach that JESUS CHRIST PLUS NOTHING = SALVATION !!!!
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.51 “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior. (1257, 2003, 460)
Walter I was in the Catholic church for 20 years. I know what it taught. I have the Catechism and documents of Vatican II as well.
I don't appreciate you posting lies and misinformation.
I can take you to the Catechism and show where it teaches salvation by works.
BTW, baptismal regeneration is salvation by works, for baptism in and of itself is a work. Water does not save; it simply gets you wet.
"For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works" (Eph.2:8,9).
As has already been posted salvation is through keeping the sacraments.
Salvation is through going to mass on a regular basis and confession of your sins to a priest on a regular basis.
These are all works.
It is doubtful that (according to RCC theology) a person born into a Catholic family, but not baptized and as a teen and adult never goes to church would not go to heaven. The RCC does not know beans about salvation of the grace of God. I have talked to many of them. I was one of them. Biblical Salvation is not preached in the RCC.
Amen! I have a LOT of catholic family, and NONE of them have a clue about salvation. They trust in their good works, and following RC "rules".
Apparently you have a misunderstanding of the sacraments. The sacraments don't save, Jesus saves. He pours out His saving grace through the sacraments.
Take out a piece of paper and write on it using your forefinger. Nothing there you say? Now take a pen and write on that paper. Viola! You have words on the paper. The pen doesn't write. You write. But you can't do it without a writing instrument.
So it is with the sacraments. They don't save but they are necessary in the salvation process.
The N.T. is full of examples of sacraments and sacramental. E.g., the Spirit stirring up the waters of Bethesda; Jesus using mud made from His spit to heal a blind man; people seeking to lie in Peter's shadow as he passed by. It also expressly relates the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church but Baptists and other evangelicals seek to rationalize away with "It can't mean that because we know sacraments don't exist."
Are you absolutely sure about that? And please think long and hard before you answer.
This might help.
I don't feel I am misunderstanding, my position is, I use the Bible as my final authority not the catechism.
Walter, if the RCC is teaching salvation through faith ALONE then why did Luther (a catholic btw) protest the RCC that they were NOT teaching faith ALONE? And then they tried to kill him for it, and they made decrees which still stand today which declare anyone teaching faith ALONE is accursed.
Zenas, this is the same as saying the sacraments are what saves! If they are necessary, and I do not follow this necessary process as the RCC and you say I must to receive Jesus' salvation through grace, then you are saying I will not be saved, because I do not follow any sacraments. UNLESS, you believe there are two gospels which save? Do you?
Well that is something you need to work out with God. The sacraments are taught in the Bible just as clearly as the fact that Jesus died on the cross. It defies reason to understand why everyone doesn't know this. There are seven sacraments:
1. Baptism. “Jesus answered, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’” John 3:5. See also 1 Peter 3:21; Acts 22:16; Titus 3:5; Acts 2:38. The visible sign is water.
2. Confirmation. “Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:17. The visible sign is laying on of hands.
3. Holy Eucharist. “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:54. “Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?” 1 Corinthians 10:16. The visible signs are bread and wine.
4. Reconciliation. “And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.’” John 20:22-23. See also 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 9:8. The visible sign is the statement of absolution by the one receiving the confession.
5. Holy Matrimony. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” Mark 10:7-9. The visible sign is the exchange of the marriage vows.
6. Holy Orders (ordination). “Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.” 1 Timothy 4:14. See also 2 Timothy 1:6; Acts 6:6. The visible sign is the laying on of hands.
7. Anointing of the Sick. “Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.” James 5:14-15. The visible signs are praying and anointing.
The sacraments don't confer grace. The Holy Spirit confers grace through the sacraments, somewhat analogous to the way a hose carries water, and faith is necessary in them all.
That is where we get the sacraments, from the Bible. Check out my Post No. 18 and note that I don't quote anything but scripture. They are all there, you just don't want to believe it because you have always been taught to the contrary.
There is no doubt in my mind that there are saved Catholics, even practicing ones. In God's plan and mercy, He saved them despite their warped doctrine. I do know this, there are enough lost Baptists to circle the earth. It is not rocket science. Look at the percentage of those attending on Sunday morning compared to total membership. To lower the numbers even more, take a good close look at the lives of Baptists who do attend.
We as Baptists have no excuse. We have been spoon feed excellent doctrine for all our lives, and most still reject it.
A saved Catholic is saved with NO help from his or her church. They are truly a miracle of the Lord.