Can u help me explain the Trinity?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AAA, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. AAA

    AAA
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    I was wondering if you could add anything to my explaination of the Trinity that would help me to try to explain it to those who do not believe in it like th Jws, Unitarians and the so called "oneness" Pentecostals?

    Does my explaination make sense? or Does it confuse the issue all the more?

    This is what I posted (post has been edited) to bouund on his topic "the Trinity" in the genral baptist discussion forum.

    The TRINTY:
    The teaching of the Trinity did NOT derive from men vain ideas, it was derived from the bible and God-fearinng men and woman who came to the conclusion from the bible that there was/is only ONE true GOD (duet 6:4) and that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have personal attributes and therefore they fall into the defintion of person/s. In the Newtestiment we see the constant use of preprositions in referring to the the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus said speaking of the Holy Ghost: I will send you ANOTHER conforter. The FATHER speaks of JESUS in the same way: This is MY beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Remember JESUS's baptism, all three were there. Gen 1:26..."let US make man in OUR image".

    There is a "oneness"(do NOT confuse this term with the heresy of Modolism/Oneness pentecostals, because as you see I am useing a different definition) concept in the Godhead: The Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit is/are the ONE true God.

    While the concept of threeness within the Godhead is in reverse of the oneness concept: Threeness, The One true GOD is the FATHER, the SON (Jesus), and the HOLY SPIRIT.

    The Trinitarian concepts of oneness and threeness will both say this is how the persons of GOD exist within Him.

    1. The use of preprositions will rebuke the modolist.

    2. Duet 6:4 say there is ONLY One GOD. Polytheism is a FALSE doctrine.

    3. We find that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has has the atributes of GOD and these three are that ONE God, and therefore the people that say ONLY the Father is the one true GOD will be proven false, because JESUS claimed to be the GREAT I AM (JOHN 8). And JESUS is NOT the FATHER, nor the Holy Spirit.


    As Trinitarians we say that: GOD is a being existing as the persons of the Father, the Son (JESUS) and the Holy Ghost.

    What is the correct way to define being and person/s?

    I am trying to find an easy way to understand, and to explain the Trinity to other people who may or maynot believe in it?

    I am also looking for some books on this subject........

    Thanks for your help...

    :godisgood:
     
    #1 AAA, Feb 6, 2007
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  2. EdSutton

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    The Athanasian Creed (the actual one, not the individual who posts under that moniker) has one of the best cryptic descriptions of an orthodox view of which I am aware. Here are brief excerpts. One should realize that these are translations of the Athanasian Creed into the English language.
    I think this is a fair summary of some of what I, at least, believe. Personally, I often use the phrase "the tri-une God".

    Ed
     
    #2 EdSutton, Feb 6, 2007
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  3. EdSutton

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    Another you might try and access somewhere is the volume Lectures in Theology by Rev. John Dick, D.D. I cannot quote what he said, by any stretch, but do remember from my own Systematic Theology class, that he explained it well in that volume.

    Ed
     
  4. AAA

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    Thanks...n/t
     
  5. Pipedude

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    If you start trying to define "being" and "person," you're really going to get snarled up and your hearers are going to become even more so.

    Hugh of St. Victor, IIRC, defined "person" as something like "an incommunicable substance of a rational nature." That sure clears it up for the folks in the Sunday School class, don't it?

    As I posted elsewhere, if you'll stick to the more immediate data (God is one, Jesus is God, Jesus is not the Father) and prove each from Scripture, then the precise philosophical categories by which we explain trinitarianism will not be necessary. The three facts must be believed, none must be denied. Explaining it to nonphilosophers is as unnecessary as explaining electron theory to someone who's reaching into the back of an old ham radio filled with hot tubes and charged capacitors. "You're fixin' to die" pretty well covers the subject, and he needs to believe it whether he understands it or not.
     
  6. skypair

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    AAA,

    The best way I have found to explain the trinity of God is to understand the trinity or triune nature of man. Man is soul, body, and spirit all in one person.

    God is soul (God), spirit (Holy Spirit), and body (Jesus) but in order to completely redeem man, God divided Himself into 3 persons while actually being One Being. Not incidentally, in Rev 22:4 God will restore His original unity of Being so that we may see Him face-to-face and He will live in NJ.

    Now to see the work of each in redemption, consider this: When Adam fell, he died immediately in his soul (immediately his conscience was oriented toward self and away from God), progressively in spirit (his thoughts went to meeting his own needs himself), and eventually in body (physical death).

    Just so is salvation. God "justifies" the soul immediately when we believe and repent of self.

    The Spirit progressively sanctifies our spirit through His indwelling work till we come to the "selfless" stature of Christ (Eph 4:13, Phil 3:21).

    Then Christ calls us out in the rapture to glorify our bodies so the "when we see Him, we will be like Him."

    Now consider: Does your body know all that your soul knows? I'd say not. Same with God vis-a-vis Christ. Jesus didn't know the "day or hour" God had in mind for His coming is an example.

    skypair
     
  7. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Absolute three. Very clearly taught in Scripture.

    Absolute One. Likewise very pain in scripture.

    3=1

    1+1+1=1

    Most analogies and descriptions fall short.

    We'll understand it better by and by.

    -lacy
     
  8. AAA

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    I don't really like the analogy of 1+1+1=3, becuase that leaves room for the modolist and others to accuse us of being polytheist and thier classic arguement would be "1+1+1+1=3, not 1". I like to use 1 x 1 x 1=1.

    Other analogy that I like to use is: Ice, water vapour, liquid= H20. I have to agree that our human words fall short of explaining such an AWSUME GOD.

    Thanks
     
  9. Jarthur001

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    The Creator of the universe is a triune God,.. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The universe God created is a picture of the Trinty. The universe is made of space, time and matter.


    All of matter takes up space for a given time. Time, space and matter are not the same, but exist as one in creation. You can not remove any one of the three, for they are linked together. Yet time is not space nor is time matter. Also, matter and space are not the same.


    Also time is triune. Time is past, persent, and furture.

    Matter is triune. Matter is made of gas, liquid or solid.

    Space is triune. Space is comprised of three dimensions, each of which permeates all space.

    What A great God we have.
    :)
     
  10. skypair

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    I guess...

    ...nobody picked up on the "image" we were created after in my explanation (??)

    "Let Us [3] make man in Our [1] image." Father/soul, Spirit/spirit, and body/Christ.

    Are there any comments? or is it still not clear? :saint:

    skypair
     
  11. Jkdbuck76

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    3 leaves; one shamrock

    does that work?
     
  12. AAA

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    yes, it works...n/t
     
  13. abonmarche'

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    RE: Can u help me explian the Trinity?

    Brother "AAA": I see the other explainations to you about the Trinity of others postings to you. May I also interject my point of view. Can we now perform and act like Christ? Why? Because God said-- let us make a man in the image and likeness of us. Then we learned in the Ole Testiment that God' s Holiness and oneness wanted us MEN to communicate to him. Why? Because God created us as HE did all the universe and all things on earth and in it. They and these things obey him. How by his laws. Notice in the New Testament John 10:30 we read that Jesus said to the Jews also the Sanhidren's that: That "I and my Father are one". Fact they wanted to kill him right then for that statement. Also read in John 14:9 --"He THAT hath seen me hath seen the FATHER"!
    That is so interesting--because Jesus also said that He and the Father will send the HOLY SPIRIT to us. That He had to die and go to heaven so that this person can come on the earth and help you and me. Look at the apostiles in a room together without Jesus in the room (he has died now) and whammey! Who shows up? The Holy Spirit! Did they ask for him? No. But the proof of the pudding is that the third person is definitely working in the New Testament for all of us on earth. YEP! ALL! John 3:16. Whosever-even us gentiles called Irish men. Bye.
     
    #13 abonmarche', Feb 14, 2007
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  14. abonmarche'

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    RE: Can u help me explian the Trinity?

    Dearest Lucy Evans: Are we related? At the French border of the Virginia Colonies.
    I saw your math. May I expound on some errors that I see. God had me study plants and pine cones and other things to see his Glory. God invented math when he told man to produce and multiply as well as to take care of my garden of Eden. Later after the Sinful man and the flood God established another garden, we were to keep called God's garden in the area we know of as "Lebanon" also known as the Syria as-suriyah of the Middle East countries. I am talking math now:
    1= ONE God or being or one quark or one atom or one electron; etc.
    1+1=2 God made one man plus he made one woman as well as one tree, one molecule, one mueon,etc. and we add these two items together we get two humans, or two atoms or two genes, or two quarks, or the whatevers on this earth.
    1+2=3 Oh! MY! Three John 14:9 I and my Father are one and I Corth. 6:11 is about the Holy Spirit, being three persons. same with a plant and things that grow and produce each other. Look at bread and its components.
    2+3=5 Oh My! you mean that if a tree or a plant grows on its God's math law of 2 small sprigs or leafs and 3 large ones that it makes 5 leafs on a stem! Amazing. Is this not copy cating?
    3+5= 8 Same comment that 3 genes with 5 another make a compound of 8 that can be recognized by man as different species or created things by God.
    5+8=13 Notice that God created all this stuff on earth for me to examine and give me insight of God's glory! Is this this clonning? I have been accused of that--but the question is? Who started this? I am not the Creator! I did not make this earth or the heavens.
    8+13=21 Where do these numbers come from? Is it not a copy cat? Sure, but who orginated these numbers in all the things I find in plants and chemicals?
    13+21=34 Boy is that tree bushey, My godness who created that?
    21+34= 55 What is this? the interstate highway speed limit! No, it is a on going never stopping of God's law of any plant growing, pine cone, corn on the cob kernals, etc. God ordained.
    34+55= 89 Wow, and it gets magnified especially when I put it under micoscope and thru atom smashers and what ever a man can invent to tear down God'as creation for the cause of education and science. I stop now because some body on this posting may be evolutionists and I just proved they are wrong in their math. God is the creator and he is holy and does not lie. did my number add up right? was it a lie? God's way does not lie. Bye
     
    #14 abonmarche', Feb 14, 2007
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  15. amity

    amity
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    Comma Johanneum

    It's true confession time.

    I will confess that since I read this article about six months ago:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum
    and did a little further investigating as to the truth of it, I have not been quite so confident about the Athanasian Creed.

    Can someone restore me to 100% confident Athanasian trinitarianism?

    Note I am not doubting that Christ is God. It is just that without that one passage of scripture I can think of so many other ways to formulate the doctrine that seem to fit other scripture.
     
    #15 amity, Feb 14, 2007
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  16. GordonSlocum

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    Check This Out

    Check This Out

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.gospeloutreach.net/trinity.html

    This site will help some.

    Type into your search space at the top of your screen these words

    Trinity Defined

    It will give you a large resource of pros and cons. Start there. Also go to wed sites that are conservative that deal in Apologetics. The defense of God Word.

    Norman Giesler's site:

    http://www.normgeisler.com/

    John Ankerberg's site:

    http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...52qx7IGPSD-dU=


    Ravi Zacharias' site:
    http://www.rzim.org/

    Lee Strobel's Site:
    http://www.leestrobel.com/

    J.P. Morland's site:
    http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...low=true&id=56

    Gary Habermas's site:
    http://www.garyhabermas.com/

    Go to your nearest Baptist Book Store "Life Way" and ask then for materials on The Trinity.

    You may find that the vast resource of material on the internet may meet your needs. I don't think what we have to say in the long term will be what you need. I would believe you need to start studying different resources so that you can be better versed in this area. It will build confidence and assurance. You are not going to win arguments on the basis of correct knowledge but your knowledge should be correct. The Holy Spirit will take your diligence in coming to the truth and with that convict the lost concerning the truth.

    God Bless and happy journeys in your studies.
     
  17. TomMann

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    I have considered the trinity beyond our capability to understand but do use the following to at least promote it's truth despite our inability to comprehend. And I use the Sun..... divide the Sun into the physical sphere, the light that it radiates, and the warmth. You can relate the Father to the physical mass, the Son to the light, and the Spirit to the warmth. Without any of these three..... it would not be the sun. It takes all three to make the one.
     
  18. Pipedude

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    Then go ahead and formulate. There's no law against it.

    Just be advised that many others have been over that road already. Good folks. Smart folks. Folks who speak Greek fluently. Folks who have a thorough grasp of the history of philosophy and all of the Trinitarian debates throughout church history.

    If you are concerned about the truth, and not just the satisfaction that comes from a Do-It-Yourself project, you'll want to find out how your formulation stacks up against that of others who did this stuff full-time. So be sure to locate their writings and check with them occasionally.

    If you beat them at their own game, good for you! Every few generations a true genius enters the field of systematic theology and overthrows an earlier belief. It may be time for the next one.
     
  19. skypair

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    Again (it seems to have been ignored for some reason :saint: )

    Our soul is the image of the Father...

    Our spirit is the image of the Holy Spirit...

    Our body is the image of Jesus...

    But from other threads here, pravailing "wisdom" suggests that if one cannot discern the difference between the 2 spiritual persons of God, then one is not likely to understand the differences between the 2 spiritual natures of man (soul and spirit) either.

    skypair
     
    #19 skypair, Feb 15, 2007
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  20. amity

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    Thanks, Pipedude. Do you have any websites I could read about this? I am truly a rank beginner, and would rather go with the majority on this one, if possible.
     

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