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Can we afford Obama?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by carpro, Nov 25, 2008.

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  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    http://www.rossputin.com/blog/media/allard_obama_spendorama.pdf

    Sen. Obama has offered 188 campaign proposals that would add up to at least $300 billion in new annual spending. That has a 5-year cost of more than $1.4 TRILLION.

    Of the 188 new spending proposals, the $300 billion price tag only covers 111 proposals. There are another 77 proposals with unknown cost estimates that will add billions to this number.

    This new spending, if enacted, would represent an almost 10% increase over the President’s FY 2009 budget.

    To finance the first year of this proposed spending ($300 billion), Congress would need to increase taxes on the top 1% of taxpayers by 57%. Under that scenario, taxpayers with incomes over $365,000 would see a tax hike of at least $40,300 on top of what they currently pay!

    That is simply not realistic. So if Congress decides to widen the pool of taxpayers footing the bill, it would have to raise taxes on the top 5% by 38%; or the top 10% by 32%; or the top 25% by 26%; or the top 50% of taxpayers by 23%.

    The top 50% of American taxpayers, who already pay 96.9% of all federal income taxes, are those who earn $31,000 (AGI) or more.

    To translate this point into language everyone can understand: if you have an income of $104,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least an additional $5,300 a year; if you have an income of $62,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least $2,300 a year. This is on top of the $2,300 increase already assumed by the failure to extend current tax policy.

    But we are not just looking at new spending. He also wants to balance the budget and stop spending the Social Security Surplus. If he follows through with these promises it would mean:

    The average taxpayer earning $62,000 would see their income tax bill rise $5,300 (61%); or

    The average taxpayer earning $104,000 would see their income tax bill rise by $12,300(74%)

    The average taxpayer earning $365,000 would see their income tax bill rise by an astounding $93,500 (132%)!

    Keep in mind all these tax increases would be on top of the:
    $2,300 tax increase 43 million families will feel when the current tax policy expires,

    $2,200 tax increase seniors will experience when the current tax policy expires, and

    $4,100 tax increase small business will have to pay when the current tax policy expires.
     
    #1 carpro, Nov 25, 2008
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Advance warning: This thread has nothing to do with 'failed Bush policies.' The poster is attempting to address dangers of Obama economic policies. Off topic posts will be deleted.
     
    #2 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1. There are no "dangers of Obama economic policies". That is, frankly, a perjorative phrase, nothing more and not worthy of being used in a serious discussion.

    2. All of Barack's proposals will not become law just as all of the proposals of our previous presidents have not become law.

    3. Any new spending will have to be scaled back/put on hold/cancelled altogether as our nation deals with the economic mess.
     
    #3 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  4. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    You've tried this dodge before.

    You are tacitly admitting that we , in fact, can't afford Obama's spending proposals.
     
    #4 carpro, Nov 25, 2008
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It is not necessarily a matter of affording them. We can't implement then while dealing with the economic mess.

    And remember, carpro, that Roger has said that we can't discuss who caused the economic mess. So don't go there.
     
    #5 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Posters who do not see any thread as a topic for serious discussion need not partake of said discussion.

    I agree that these 'dangers' are to some degree exaggerated, but there are open to discussion. That is the reason for a thread.

    The question is not 'how we got here,' but are Obama's proposals the best way to deal with where we are?
     
    #6 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2008
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, Roger, it is rather premature to be discussing policies that haven't been implemented yet and won't be for months.

    Besides, no one can credibly argue that Obama's appointments thus far as well as his statements since becoming president-elect have been anything other than solid and centrist.

    The right-wingers are behind the curve yet again. They are fighting the last war. Events have left them in the dust once again.
     
    #7 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we cannot know how these will work until attempts are made to implement them, but the question of whether or not these are wise plans is a fair one.

    I favour low taxes and low spending. I realise we have not seen that, but it certainly appears that President Obama will only exacerbate the current situation with his plans.
     
    #8 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You are falling for carpro's flawed thinking that current events will allow the policies he is railing against to even see the light of day. His assumption is ill-advised but not unexpected. As I said, the right-wingers are fighting the last war and are not dealing with current events.
     
    #9 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  10. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    To the contrary, it is Obama's intent to implement many of his proposals with a long term , meaning forever, cost to them to solve what is a temporary problem.

    By admitting we can't afford them now, you are acknowledging that we can't afford them in the future.
     
    #10 carpro, Nov 25, 2008
  11. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying Obama lied just to get elected or that he just wasn't serious about all his spending proposals?
     
    #11 carpro, Nov 25, 2008
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I am doing no such thing, carpro. Your statement is absolutely inane.
     
    #12 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    No Ken, I am not 'falling' for anything. From what I have seen these are documented proposals. Implemented or not they show in my mind a serious flaw in Pres Obama's ability as a fiscal leader.

    I will agree that once he has some experience in executive leadership he will re-evaluate his plans, but for the moment he reveals how unqualified he is to make these decisions.

    I only hope his lessons are not too expensive for America to bear.
     
    #13 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Evidently, you have not kept up with his appointments, nor with his statements since becoming president-elect. If you had, I don't think a reasonable person like you would make such a statement.
     
    #14 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Neither. Barack is operating from the center and adjusting to the economic mess we are in.

    And, remember, we can't mention who caused the economic mess, per Roger's instructions. So don't go there.
     
    #15 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I will admit that he is showing some wisdom in getting experienced help, but his proposals are flawed. If (and as you say they will not be) implemented they would only make the situation worse.

    Perhaps, if he continues to seek sage advice and backs off his campaign promises the damage will not be too bad.
     
    #16 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I have been extremely pleased with his appointments to the economic team, particularly Geithner at Treasury and Orszag at Budget.
     
    #17 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Barak will never operate from the "center".

    He will attempt to implement long term cost programs in an effort to solve short term problems.

    He will use this "mess" as you call it, for a government power grab and we'll have to pay for it sooner or later.
     
    #18 carpro, Nov 25, 2008
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Agreed ....
     
    #19 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 25, 2008
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, you are not up to date on current events. You are speaking based on nothing more than your flawed, right-wing shibboleths.
     
    #20 KenH, Nov 25, 2008
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