Can We Be Perfect?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ztheberean, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. Ztheberean

    Ztheberean
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    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
    Matt 5:48

    I would like to hear your comments on this using the Scriptures, rather than our opinions...
     
  2. DHK

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    First you need to understand the word. The Greek word is "teleios," which means "complete," "mature," and in the KJV is often tranlsated "perfect." The Old English word "perfect" means "complete." Thus in this verse it also means complete or mature. It does not refer to sinless perfection or perfect in holiness. Those are things that are unattainable in this lifetime.
    At salvation the Holy Spirit comes and indwells the believer. Our lives begin to change as the Holy Spirit begins to work in us. As we grow one of the evidences of our growth is the fruit of the Spirit:

    Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    A "mature" (perfect) Christian will evidence these fruits in his life. Fruit comes to maturity. God wants to see this fruit in every believers life. These are also the attributes of God: love, peace, longsuffering, goodness, etc.
    God wants "mature" as he is.
    or better still:
    Be ye complete as God is complete. The fruit of the Spirit will make a believer a complete person, not a sinless person, but a complete person. The Word of God is also necessary.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. (ASV)

    The word perfect means complete as one can see by comparing translations. The word of God is given that the man of God may be complete thoroughly furnished for every good worked. He also needs the fruit of the Spirit.
     
  3. Amy.G

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    DHK, you stole my thunder! That's what I was going to say. :)
     
  4. DQuixote

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    ditto.









    ..............
     
  5. donnA

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    Going with DHK too...
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    edit...............
     
    #6 Brother Bob, Feb 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2007
  7. Brother Bob

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    Perfect by God is considered to be the heart.

    Eze 11:19And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

    1Ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, [that] his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart

    was not perfect with the LORD his God, as [was] the heart of David his father.

    1Ki 15:3 And he walked in all the sins of his father, which he had done before him: and his heart was not perfect with the

    LORD his God, as the heart of David his father.

    2Ch 19:9 And he charged them, saying, Thus shall ye do in the fear of the LORD, faithfully, and with a perfect heart.

    Isa 38:3 And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart,

    and have done [that which is] good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.

    Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them

    which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what

    [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be
     
    #7 Brother Bob, Feb 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2007
  8. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    In God's eyes I am just as perfect as Jesus. My life is hidden in Him.

    Bro Tony
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    Not the whole man you are not. You are living in a corruptible body and have sinned where Jesus had no sin.
     
  10. Bro Tony

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    If I am not hidden in Christ. If I am not the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. If God does not see me as sinless and perfect in His Son. Then I am hopelessly lost. I am perfect in Christ in the eyes of the Father. For which I am eternally grateful. It is true that my flesh has seen sin, and my heart was estranged from God, but no more because I am fully redeemed by the finished work of Christ on Calvary. Praise Him!!!!!!!!!!:jesus:

    Bro Tony
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    Then why do we need an advocate for our sins where Jesus don't.
     
  12. Bro Tony

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    Great point. But remember He doesn't just stand and speak for us, He has taken our place. All God's judgment for our sins was laid on Him, how much is left? We stand perfect in Him, nothing else needs to be added.

    Bro Tony
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    I agree with you in heart and inwardly that which is born of an incorruptible seed. But outwardly we are still like Apostle Paul with a thorn in the flesh of which you and I both are looking for a glorious resurrection where we will be glorified both soul and body.
     
  14. tragic_pizza

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    I'm almost perfect(ly round)...
     
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    [​IMG]

    At least you smile. :)
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Feb 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2007
  16. Shiloh

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    Not the whole man you are not. You are living in a corruptible body and have sinned where Jesus had no sin.by BOB?

    Wait ....:eek: .....You mean Bob thinks a Christian can still sin? Wow! He must have been doing some studying over the weekend.
     
  17. bound

    bound
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    Grace and Peace,

    I believe we can, through God's Grace, seek greater degrees of Sanctification in this life but not complete Sanctification until the life hereafter.

    God Bless.
     
  18. DHK

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    Like Tony said:
    I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. I stand in his righteousness, justified by Him, and declared sinless in the sight of God. My sins he remembers no more, even the future ones.

    My body--sure it is corruptibel. So what! My body of flesh does not sin. Do you believe that Bob. It is not this earthly tabernacle that does the sinning. It is the mind that controls it. My body does not act without the mnd! The mind is the soul or the heart as Jesus said it was. Out of the heart comes fornication, adultery, murder, etc. And he wasn't speaking of the organ that pumps the blood. He is speaking of the mind, the very soul of the body. It controls my hand. Without the mind my hands, which do either good or evil, are as a corpse.

    Thus Paul says: "with the mind I serve the law of God." What do you submit your mind to? It is not your flesh, the corpse of this body that sins. It is the mind, the very soul of your body that causes it to sin.
    Paul's thorn in the flesh was not in his mind; it was in his eyes. He had poor eyesight. It was an infirmity in the flesh that was given him.

    As for me, I stand holy and righteous before God. My body doesn't matter.
     
  19. Ztheberean

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    Hi there everyone,

    I am happy to see that you took the time to look up the word perfect. I just want to add on what you have come up with for your edification. Now that we know that we need to be perfect, the question is HOW do we become perfect?

    The word perfect is used 99 times in the bible, and I use the blueletterbible.org to do word studies which is very easy to use. We can only go into the Scriptures to find answers so that we would be edified by the word of God, rather than our opinions. The verse that was used in question Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
    That word perfect is strongs # 5046 which means brought to it’s end, finished, complete.
    The word perfection is strongs # 5047 which means moral and spiritual perfection.

    In Hebrews it speaks that we need to lay the foundation of repentance for true faith so that God might permit us to go on to perfection. (Heb 6:1&3) We cannot do the will of God without the knowledge of this doctrine (Jn 7:17); And we are NOT to receive anyone who does not bring/teach this doctrine because they do not have the Father and the Son, and we will partake in their evil deeds. (2Jn 1:9-11) This is why we need to learn what repentance means so that we would bring forth the fruits of repentance, without which we will be cast into the fire. (No matter what we believe. (Matt 9:13-12, Lk 3:8-9) This is obviously a process that cannot be done instantly. This is also known as God creating us in Christ Jesus so that we could do good works, so that we would not boast (that we did it ourselves) because it is a gift from God. (Eph 2:10-8) This gift is God’s power working in us by His grace so that we would minister these things unto others. (Eph 3:7) This process is also known as “our” crucifixion with Christ nevertheless we live, but not us (ie our will) but Christ in us, and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us enough to give Himself for us, without which (ie our crucifixion with Christ) we can only frustrate the grace of God. (Gal 2:20-21) A willingness to go through this is acceptable unto God, because He first gives us a willingness and then causes us to perform for His good pleasure. (1Cor 8:12, Phil 2:13) The question is, have we asked God to crucify us so that we could truly live for Him?

    This is how we can have hope, because after we have been freed by Christ from the bondage of sin, we can patiently wait on the Spirit to make us righteous and loving, so that we can go on to serve others in love. (Gal 5:1, 5-6 & 13) I hope that no one is hindering you from obeying this truth? (Gal 5:7)

    What is perfection? The ability to love (Col 3:14); meaning; love our enemies, and do good to those that hate us, and despitefully use us (Matt 5:44); This is how we know that we have been made perfect as our Father is perfect. (Matt 5:48)

    Love can rejoice in the truth that reveals grace,

    Zianna
    1Cor 13:6 with Col 1:6
     
  20. AAA

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    It says in the bible that we will be perfect when we see HIM, but as of write now we are be santified: The process inwhich we are becoming perfect by the POWER and the will of GOD through the shed blood of JESUS.
     

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