Can y'all help me out on this one??

Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by Grace, Aug 20, 2004.

  1. Grace

    Grace
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    All you people smarter than this college kid--I've been reading this book my best friend gave me. She'd never read it before, but it looks like it would be a great book. It's called "The Survival Guide for Christians on Campus" by Tony Campolo and William Willimon. Could I get your take on some things it said? I thought maybe I was reading it wrong, but there are some things that just seem so false. Since you don't have the book in front of you, I'm going to use direct quotes instead of paraphrasing. (on some of this, I'll put what I think, and some scriptures I found, and you can tell me if I'm off base) Here goes nothing...

    1. (Campolo and Willimon's definition of sin) "Sin is whatever diminishes your humanness and/or diminishes the humanity of someone else." (p.83)

    2. (on creating man and woman) "Then the Lord God said "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner." So out of the ground, the Lord formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called the living creature, that was its name:...all cattle, birds of the air, and every beast of the field, but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner." Genesis 2:18-20
    "The Creator has made a creature, an earthling (the man here is not yet a male for male and female had not yet been created)....Without consulting the earthling, God declares "It is not good for man to be alone." (Possibly Adam was quite happy to be left alone, but this is not God's way of doing things.)

    Now MY Bible says " The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found. Genesis 2:18-20

    The way my Bible states it is that God had already formed the animals. The way what they quoted reads is that God formed the animals after man. But Genesis says that animals (and man ) were created on day 6, but that after creating animals "Then God said "let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..." (Gen 1:26)

    3. (On the Bible) "Christians differ from Buddhists or Jews or Muslims mainly in that we have listened to different stories." (p 38)

    HUH?? I thought we differed from them because we don't follow Buddah, Allah, and we aren't still waiting on our Messiah to come for the first time.

    4. (Also on the Bible) "To say the the Bible is "God's word" does not mean that every word is straight from the mouth of God. The Bible is a product of inspired people." (p. 40)

    What does that do with 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" ?

    Ok, I'm going to be late for Literature if I don't get off this computer. . I know this has been a long post. Sorry. I just wanted to get someone else's take on it to see if maybe I was reading this wrong. This frustrates me. Because of this, my new policy is that before I will give someone a "Christian" book, I want to read the whole thing first.

    Thanks a mil!
    Grace
     
  2. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    The Bible:

    1 John 3:4 -

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    1 John 3:8 -

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning....

    James 4:17 -

    Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    Makes sense.
     
  3. Grace

    Grace
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    Normally when I give a person a book, I have already read it...but sometimes I pick it up, flip through it, and it looks fine. Now though, I'm not gonna do that anymore. My mom wants me to highlight the stuff, mark it with sticky notes and give it to our associate pastor to see what he says about it.
     
  4. Gayla

    Gayla
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    I think Mr. Campolo and Mr. Willimon don't know what they're talking about, but Miss Grace does.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Marcia

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    Grace, this idea that Adam was neither male nor female is found in New Age and other non-Biblical teachings.

    Their definition of sin is definitely off - sounds like something Schuller would say.

    This is postmodern stuff. Postmodern Christians are always saying we should just tell stories, and that Jesus told stories (and did not give propositional truth). Sounds like they are buying into some pomo stuff.

    The words were inspired, not the people. These authors are wrong! :eek:


    It was not long and it's good you brought this to the attention of others. You are discerning and I commend you for it. From what you've said, I would not recommend this book to anyone!

    Here's a good book for Christian college students:
    _How to Stay Christian in College_, by J. Budziszewski.

    I've heard Budziszewski speak in person and on radio -- he's great! Very sound stuff!
     
  6. Grace

    Grace
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    I've heard of "How To Stay Christian in College" and I want to read it. I gave this book, with marked passages, to our associate pastor to get his take on it. Thanks everyone. I was concerned that maybe I was reading it wrong, so I wanted to get some other opinions.

    Grace
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas
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    When you said Campolo, you really didn't need to say anymore.
     
  8. Grace

    Grace
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    Lol Thomas. But I'd never heard of him. How was I supposed to know?
     
  9. Paul of Eugene

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    I believe you will find that most translations of the Bible, including King James, New American Standard, and so forth, interpret this passage to say "The Lord God Formed" instead of "had formed".

    The original Hebrew is most naturally translated in the present tense in that way.

    Some argue that the passive past tense is also allowed by the form of the Hebrew words there, and then feel free to choose the passive past tense in order to remove the contradiction you have noticed. This choice is reflected in a very few translations, notably the NIV.

    The other translators felt that one goes with the natural simple translation first unless the context demands otherwise. A contradiction with another passage in another chapter does not count as immediate context.

    Therefore you have noticed a point that is famous in the discussion on how to interpret Genesis, and whether or not the literal interpretation is inerrant.

    Those who are willing to fudge the interpretation to rescue innerrancy will do so ala the NIV version.

    Those who are unwilling to fudge the interpretation and wish to rescue inerrancy can go the non-literal route -

    Those who insist on taking the most natural interpretation and rescue inerrancy are usually reduced to supposing there has been a textual copying error over the millenia of some unknown kind.

    Some are willing to let go of complete inerrancy and accept the most natural reading of both passages.

    But that's pretty much your choices.
     
  10. superdave

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    The Campolo name rang a bell. not sure why

    Than I read the quotes, obviously he is someone I have disagreed with in the past and still do.

    The problems have been well covered by other posters. Sounds like that book is a bunch of rubbish if you ask me. Very devoid of any Biblical foundations for sure.
     
  11. Bro.Bill

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    Since you have a puter help is as close as the net. Just type "Christian apologetics" in your search window and plenty of help will arrive for free.
    Evidence that Demmands a verdict will help you with athiestic attacks.
    I don't know how well discipled you are but "A Handbook for Christian Maturity" by Bill Bright might be helpful
     

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