Can you also overdo it with telling people how bad they are?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, May 30, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    When you're always told how bad and evil you are and that actually you deserved to burn in hell for all eternity will this not cause a person to become rebellious more than ever? :tear:
    When I hear such things then sometimes I feel like getting too much and sometimes it also angers me, does this mean I'm rebellious? But imagine your teacher always tells you have unable you are then wouldn't this also anger you sooner or later?
    But sometimes it's like when I hear this stuff about hell and that every human deserved burning in hell forever then I cannot really comprehend it and then it's as if I argue with myself and try to convince myself that I also deserved going to hell but somehow this isn't easy. What if I'm too rebellious to be a christian or what if I'm too rebellious to stay a christian? What if one day I simply get too much and say "I don't care anymore, I cannot stand this fire and brimstone stuff anymore"?
    It's simply so strange. Often I find myself thinking exactly the same thoughts which an atheist would think and then it's like I have to convince myself that God is right but what if I don't really agree with God and only want to agree with God because I'm scared of going to hell? What if this is the true motivation and if God couldn't harm me then maybe I wouldn't agree with him anymore.
    But if you don't want to go to hell you have to agree with God, you simply have to. What if the fear of hell is the only reason why I try to make myself agree with all these things? What if I would be like the atheists which attack God if I had no fear of hell? What if the only difference between them and me is that I'm scared of hell while they are not scared of hell and because of this they attack God? How am I supposed to know this?
    Somehow it's always the same and it never ends. I have had this so often that I would argue with myself as if there were two parties in my brain and one argues for and the other one argues against God. :(
    How is this supposed to go on? What if I simply can't really trust God enough?
    When I for example hear people which said they used to be christians and they prayed to God but he didn't do anything and then they fell off then I directly become scared and ask myself if God really deals with all people the same. Why are there people which convert and are allowed to experience God and then there are also christians which struggle and would like to experience God but they don't and they totally despair of it?
    How do you not doubt God in such situations? Is this even possible to never doubt God no matter what happens? But even if it is possible what if I simply cannot do it? Does this mean I'm too evil to? :tear:
    Does anybody even know what I'm talking about or is this pure theory to you? I wonder if others have the same problems or if it's just me. What if my real nature is simply too rebellious and I cannot be a christian because I'm simply not supposed to be one and I only try to force myself to be a christian? Sometimes I feel like I can't be a christian because I'm still so angry sometimes and get such vile thoughts. :tear:
     
  2. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    "When you're always told how bad and evil you are and that actually you deserved to burn in hell for all eternity will this not cause a person to become rebellious more than ever?"

    that could be classified as "hellfire & brimstone preaching" which is not biblical.
     
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not?
    But what about John the baptist? Didn't he do the same?
    And what about Jesus? He also warned of hell and taught about it.
     
  4. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes in a sense they did - but they did it out of love - speaking the truth in love.

    they did much more then speak about hell and telling people they're sinners and going to hell. right?

    yeah i know Jesus spoke of hell more then anything - but its the act of doing it with love.

    for example: if a police officer storms into your house saying: "YOU'RE UNDER ARREST! COME WITH ME! YOU'RE DONE FOR NOW!"
    well... you're gonna be a little miffed at the guy - because you dont know what you did - the officer knows you've broken the law - but to you - you dont think you have.

    but if the officer came to your house - storms in your house saying: "YOU'RE UNDER ARREST FOR POSSESSION OF MARIJIUANA PLANTS!" you now know what you've done wrong - and you understand...

    if the officer came to your house - knocks on the door - and says "hey there! how's it going? im just here to let you know its a wonderful day today - but not for everyone - because everyone has their bad days. today for you is a bad day - you've done something bad... you're under arrest now. come with me"

    mmmm... which would you respond to with most understanding and least resistance?
    the second i hope.

    the officer in the second scenario came in like the first - still with passion - but explained what you did wrong.

    ---------
    that's all that JtB and Jesus did. exposed the people to the mirror of the law - speaking the truth in love - still having passion. not being hypocritical like the third situation.
     
    #4 gekko, May 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2006
  5. Eric B

    Eric B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,806
    Likes Received:
    2
    And also, to whom much is given, much is expected. The people both John and Jesus preached to were Jews under the Law. They should have known better than the things they were doing. But for us, supposedly in the New Covenent, to take that and try to preach that way to the unbelieving world, is what has causes many problems.
    In the past, like in the days of Edwards and Spurgeon (Whom much of this takes off of), there was the widespread illusuion of a "Christian culture", which was basically the Old Covenant nation of Israel all over again, but now with Jesus. So the preachers thought they could just thunder everyone in line, and it did "work" on many, but this created a more shallow fear based "obedience" that lacked depth. (Matt.13:20, 21) So we had great so-called "revivals", and it seemed this way worked, but over time, all the fear breeded rebellion, because at the same time preachers were doing that, they themselves forgot thet they too were sinners, and they often got caught in sins themselves, or abused their authority, especially in regard to money. People soon got wise to this, and it was like "yeah, they scare us with Hell, and we come and pay them, and they live good, and they tell us material things and the goods of the earth don't matter, yet they have theirs". This plus other problems in society, like treatment of other peoples; the abuse of other authority figures, such as fathers, courts, etc. fot people thinking, and questioning the old time religion and society; and then people eventually began giving up on it. They either threw off Christianity altogether, or began softening it down, and the focus became how much God loves you, and meeting people's needs, etc. Others look at all the problems of today, and think this was caused by preachers softening down and "not preaching Hell anymore", but a balance was needed. But as always, things just swing from one extreme to the other.
     
  6. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    My dear friends,

    Please read my signature by the late Dr. John Wilmot. I think is is very fitting for this day and age. Dr. Wilmot was a former professor of mine and friend, a minister at the same Baptist Church in England all his life.

    There is the old saying about "catching more flies with honey than with vinegar." I suppose we could apply this to our gospel attitude.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Blammo

    Blammo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Consider the fact that the Gospel is good news. How is it good news if a person doesn't know the bad news?
     
  8. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    can't always provide honey.

    the gospel isn't a glass of american iced tea. its a glass of canadian iced tea!

    ok. bad analogy. sorry. hehe.
    i was just trying to elaborate on what blammo said...

    the gospel is not a happy meal... how's that?
     
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would have no difficulty discerning good done to me compared with bad done to me. We donot have to taste poison to understand it is not good for us. We need only understand the gospel to appreciate what possibilities the alternative provides. In my humble opinion.

    I grew up in the church. I always believed that to be with Jesus was far better than to be in Hell with the Devil. I did not have to know how evil that place really was.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe I should have picked a different name for this topic since everybody is now focusing on wether fire and brimstone sermons are good or not and nobody comments on the rest I've written. I'd like to know if I'm the only one who has these things.:confused:
     
  11. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Disciple,

    I would like to recommend a very good book I think will help you in many areas you discuss here. It is, The Fight; The Christian Struggle, by Dr. John White, InterVarsity Press. It is available at their site for about 9:00 American.

    The late Dr. White was a Plymouth Brethren and a psychiatrist, who taught at a reputable college in British Columbia, Canada.

    He covers, biblically, all the struggles a new Christian experiences in life and relates all his answers to the Bible. It is easy reading, but sound in doctrine and in principle.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have this book. :praise:
    But I never read it. :(
     
  13. Blammo

    Blammo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Disciple -

    It sounds like you are focused on the judgement of God. You should spend some time focusing on the grace of God. Consider what He did for you on that cross. Think of the fact that He died on that cross for the sins of the whole world. Think of the fact that salvation is for all who will believe. Think of the fact that salvation is a free gift.

    It is not up to you to keep your salvation. You didn't earn it with works, you can't keep it with works. The bible does tell us to examine ourselves, whether we are in the faith. Read 1John and see what it tells you about your state. But remember, God made hell for the devil and his angels, not for you. That is why He made salvation so easy to receive. All you have to do is believe that He died of the cross for your sins, was buried, and rose again the third day.

    I think it is important to peach on sin, hell, and repentance. But I understand that to be for the prideful, unrepentant, God rejecting religious types. If you study the Gospels you'll see that Christ preaced these things, pay attention to who He preached them to. The humble in heart received grace and mercy right away.

    I hope this helps some.
     
  14. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Blammo,
    but it's simply the case that whenever I read something in the OT which scares me then I become scared of God and my picture of God is distorted. Shall I simply not read scary passages? I don't know if this is a solution.
     
  15. Blammo

    Blammo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Philippians 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Read and study all the scriptures. Expect some fear and trembling. But remember the grace and mercy of God, and keep your eyes on Christ.
     

Share This Page

Loading...