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Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by James_Newman, May 25, 2007.

  1. TBLADY

    TBLADY New Member

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    I am saying that it is quite possible for someone to revert to bad sins or habits after being truly converted...although I would find it hard to believe someone who is really saved living in habitual sin, which might indicate a false coversion or a very weak personality (and God knows there are many in that catagory) I would never put myself in a position of JUDGING someone based on what he does without knowing more about them and what they may have been through. I might question whether or not they were really saved and talk to them about it. If I couldn't talk them out of their salvation then who am I to say otherwise? And God knows that has happened many times. Only God knows who is really saved.

    Now here this might open a can of worms....I believe it is possible for someone to have homosexual feelings and be saved. It isn't the feelings that are sin, but the ACTIONS.
     
    #201 TBLADY, Jun 1, 2007
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  2. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    Entertaining the feelings, IOW, entertaining the thoughts of doing such an act, is sin. A true Child of God will not entertain such vile thoughts.
     
  3. TBLADY

    TBLADY New Member

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    Please provide scripture to back that up!

    By saying that you just said all Christians are now PERFECT and never sin or have a bad thought. You can't have it both ways!

    By the way one cannot help who one is attracted to any more than one can keep a bird from flying over their head....yet one can keep that bird from nesting in their hair.

    I will be anxiously waiting for your scripture verses to back up what you said. I have to go for now. Ciao
     
    #203 TBLADY, Jun 1, 2007
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  4. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    Entertaining sinful thoughts, even in the mind, is taking pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Notice Jesus did not say 'Whosoever lays with a woman committed adultery', no, He said it is possible to commit adultery without even physically touching a woman.

    And we know according to God's Word that adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
     
    #204 His Blood Spoke My Name, Jun 1, 2007
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  5. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Bingo! Christians who look at women to lust after them will not inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  6. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    The Word of God would not even declare them to be Christians if they take pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
  7. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    No, not at all...I was pointing out the absurdity and inconsistency with your view...and how close it is to Catholic theology.
     
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Bro. James,

    Please understand that I am not being flippant nor mocking your statement......but if your statement is true, then I don't believe there will be any Christian men inheriting the kingdom of God at all.

    Isn't the occasional inappropriate thought towards the opposite gender something that even Christians must struggle with and/or deal with from time to time?

     
  9. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    A little Scripture claiming any 'sin', save for "unbelief" or "blaspheming the Holy Spirit", whatever that may mean, that is said to be irrefutable evidence that one is not saved, would be nice, here! (J. Jump may 'convert' me, yet!) :laugh:

    I've already posted a group of sins that overtly, pretty much "run the gamut" that famous, Biblical, and definitely 'saved' individuals commited in post # 183 , with no attempted refutation, BTW.

    Strange that where Scripture says one thing, some of us, me included sometimes, keep on saying another. :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
    #209 EdSutton, Jun 1, 2007
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  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Everyone but HBSMN, I think. But if my statement is true, and your statement is true, then how would anyone ever inherit the kingdom? They would have to confess their sin and forsake it. We have all sinned even after salvation. The only way anyone will inherit the kingdom is by God's grace and mercy.

    Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

    1 John 1:9-10
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
     
  11. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Nothin' like killin' context! Not to mention, adding to the Word of God!

    Not one verse says what you are saying here, to my knowledge.

    Ed
     
  12. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    Study the Word, Ed. You may receive the knowledge.
     
  13. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Not only that, but the word "damned" is simply "judged". If you have a Scofield (which I do not), I believe that it says that in the notes. If not there, then elsewhere. All saved people will be judged.

    BTW, I logged on to post a thought to you about 1 Peter 1:16. "You shall be holy" is future.

    What is the purpose of chastisement?
     
  14. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Perhaps you missed this lengthy post here:

    Post #122

    Which was completed with this post:

    Post #123

    I could easily post more, if you'd like.

    I present many things as merely opinion. However, when I present a doctrine, I build it line upon line.

    That's the great thing about computers. Back in the 70's when I was first learning to study, it would take hours to come up with lists of verses that contain a word. Now, I can get a list of every time a word is used, with or without other words, using grammar, etc., in a matter of seconds.

    I rarely rely upon the works of men, such as commentaries (although Robertson and Vincent have some handy ones that don't seem to be biased toward any denomination, although Robertson was at Louisville Baptist Seminary), except for the BDAG and grammar texts.

    Then, I compare it to context, and one thing that I've learned is that if you look at the grammar, it never contradicts the context. There may be some times that the grammar or context alone might be amiguous, but rarely when combined.

    I also don't simply accept contradictions as being merely a mystery of God. We've been given an instruction book and I don't think that God was ambiguous in the way it is worded: I think it's precise, in every little detail, and in great detail, although men, through copying errors have created a few problems. Those can be studied through prayerfully, and many times the issue is cleared up.

    But, I have learned that many things that I was taught as a child, such as all saved people are saints, are wrong and the Scriptures will not support that either through context or grammar. It's like using "lost" and "unsaved" synonymously. One of my teachers taught that contextually, "lost" did not always mean unsaved. I was blessed enough by God to be able to show him that it never refers to an unsaved person.

    A Greek professor that I know taught me that to see the Scriptures without any spin, read it in the Greek. (He also has a PhD in Hebrew, but I don't know Hebrew, so I rely on the LXX.) "Hell" is not the lake of fire; those who think that salvation can be lost point to the warnings about hell to show that salvation can be lost. Those who see that salvation is secure try to put a "saved person wouldn't really do that" or "really and truly saved" spin on it to make it fit. But, when you see that "hell" and the "lake of fire" are not synonymous, you don't have to twist or ignore any other Scriptures.

    The same holds true for "saint" equals "saved", "heaven" equals "Kingdom", "age" equals "forever" arguments.

    There are no contradictions in Scripture, and if you read Scriptures in the original languages, it immediately clears up about 90% of the places that seem contradictory.
     
  15. dcorbett

    dcorbett Active Member
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    I have permission to post this as I see fit.

    The Testing of Our Faith
    by Dr. Paul Chappell


    “My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” James 1:2-4

    Sometimes in the development of our faith, God will place us into a waiting process. While we may pray for something to happen immediately, God wishes to test our faith through a time of waiting.

    James 1:2 says, “My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations.” The Bible does not say if we fall into temptations; it says when. That word “temptation” can either mean an enticing to sin or a testing or trial. God tells us that there will be difficult times that come into our lives. But He tells us that we must embrace God’s trying of our faith and patiently endure it.

    As we endure the testing of our faith, we must wait joyfully. Our verse tells us to “count it all joy” when these times come! Second Corinthians 12:9-10 says, “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.” Because Christ’s grace is sufficient during our trials, we can have joy while we endure the testing of our faith.

    We must view our trials as learning opportunities. If we always look at our trials in a negative light, we will not be able to experience the growth God wants to accomplish in our lives through the trial. We must remain surrendered to God with a joyful attitude during our trials.

    Not only should we wait joyfully during difficult times but we must also wait patiently. Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” God has a purpose in everything that happens to us. He sometimes places trials or difficulties in our lives in order to grow us or test our faith. When He does, we must have patience, knowing that He is seeking to draw us closer to Him.

    Someone once said, “God has not promised to make us comfortable but to make us conformable.” God desires that we would conform to Him and many times that requires a time of testing. He places trials in our lives to test and grow our faith so we will conform to the image of His Son. We should not become upset or angry with God, but we must joyfully and patiently wait for God to grow our faith.

    Are you going through a difficult time right now? Is God testing your faith today? God’s plan for our lives will include the testing of our faith. We must accept these times and let Him work in our lives. Ask Christ to help you wait patiently and joyfully as He works in your life to perfect your faith today.
     
  16. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Nice ad hominem shot! :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  17. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    I appreciate the information. However that does not change the point. The 'lengthy' posts you referred to, I did read. And you did give several verses in them. However, I see little, if any, in the verses you posted that would specifically 'differentiate' between 'Joe Average Christian' and when one moves to 'Joe Super Saint' and that is what I was and still am asking for. Several things in this post are irrelevant, if informative, since I am not one making some of these claims. I am fully one of those who "see that salvation is secure"; I specifically am not one who attempts to "try to put a "saved person wouldn't really do that".. on it", by any stretch. And I specifically have previously stated multiple times on the BB that there is no such thing, Biblically, as any ""really and truly saved"" wording to be found anywhere in Scripture. "The Bible doesn't talk like that!", to quote one I once heard.

    There is no dichotomy between "being saved" and "being 'genuinely, really and truly' saved" anywhere but in the mind of some who have a "pet list" of sins that one can (supposedly) not commit, as a Christian. I do not use the word Christian, except to refer to those found in the 'body of Christ', since Pentecost.

    David and Abraham were just as saved and secure as you or I (and I am not for one second suggesting that I could come anywhere close to either of them in my own 'spirituality'), but they were not Christians, as the Bible uses the term. They were, FTR, of two classes of "OT saints", but neither of them were or are in "the body of Christ". You might reread my own post # 197.

    This hayseed has gotta' go to the hayfield this AM. However I'm pretty sure that if something breaks on the tractor or the mower, I'll entertain (and maybe even voice) more than a few sinful thoughts, such as 'His Blood' mentions, and hence, "lose my salvation" or show that I was "not really a child of God" (in his eyes, of course) to begin with. :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
    #217 EdSutton, Jun 2, 2007
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  18. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Well, if you should find that you're not really and truly saved, we're here for ya' brother!

    My main point about "saint" though, is that there is nowhere that refers specifically to all saved people as "saint", but there are passages that show that there are those who are referred to as "saint" based on their behavior. I think that's similar to "Christian", which means Christ-like, and I don't think all saved people are very Christ-like. (And I'm not talking about your trip to the hayfield:laugh:)
     
  19. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    Please explain to me how my comments have caused you to draw this conclusion?
     
  20. gerald285

    gerald285 New Member

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    The bible is very clear on this. The problem is that very few who claim to be Christians believe the bible about this subject. The bible teaches that a Christian can sin, any sin, but they can never again return to the practice of it as a lifestyle. 1John says that once saved we do not practice sin. There is no exceptions.

     
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