Can you define spiritual and physical death?

There are two spiritual deaths:

1. Adam sinned, and the result of His sin is the eternal separation of man from God. God is Holy. Holy God and sin cannot co-exist! Thus the human spirit is said to be dead in that it is separated from the source of life.

However Jesus tells us that the life of the flesh is spirit, without spirit the flesh could not live. Therefore the human spirit is alive in every living human.

There is but one death of the flesh. When that occures the human spirit is set free from the flesh to face judgment.

2 The final death of the spirit happens only to those spirits that do not have faith in God. After deeds, both good and bad, are judged, the spirits are separated as sheep from goats, and the spirits without faith are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

 

Well if you won't accept Scriptural truth, what answer are you looking for?

 

What happens when Christ "quickens" us at salvation. Does the quickening come before or after salvation? Does Christ quicken my dead spirit so that I can be saved, or do I accept His free gift of salvation and then He quickens me?

How "dead" was I before salvation?

Only asking here folks, no agenda.

 

Roy1, That is how I see it! But the Second death is not a death that continues for eternity, it is a final death, sudden, and yes it really ends life of the spirit that is cast into it. It is the "black-hole" for spirits, everything that goes in, stays in thereafter. You see, when this heaven and earth which contains the lake of fire "passes away", so does the lake of fire. The new heaven and New earth will not include a lake of fire for there will be no evil, there will be no sinners, there will be only obedient, righteous, people, serving and worshipping eternal God for all eternity.

Once one is cast into the lake of fire, that is an eternity unto itself. spirit life ends. I know there is a scripture that declares that satan and his henchmen will be tormented for ever, but complete and total inhilation is definitly for an eternity, there is no other way to look at it.

 

The spirit that is separated from its source of life is dead only in its current destination which is the Lake of Fire. Human spirit which is what Jesus came to seek and to save, is very much a living spirit in that it is the life of the flesh, and we can see that people live who are not yet redeemed. Human spirit is able to receive the Word of God and either believe or not believe. The spirit that believes is regenerated, the connection to the source of life is reestablished, and that spirit, so long as it remains a believing spirit cannot be separated again from the source. However, if that spirit for whatever reason loses its belief, it once again becomes separated and, I believe, cannot once again be connected a second time.

The ultimate test comes when the flesh dies, releasing it's hold on the spirit. After the death of the flesh man's spirit is judged for its works while living in the flesh, then it is separated "sheep from goats" with sheep going to Jesus' pasture, while the goats are cast into the lake of fire. Sheep are believers, goats are unbelievers.

The answer to your question is "Faith cometh by hearing and Hearing by the Word of God"

 

If indeed death involves separation then eternal death would seem to necessitate an eternal separation rather than annihilation. This, along with Roy's scriptural references indicate that there is no finality to spiritual death. If there is no beginning as you mention Yelsew, the why is there an end.

The scripture teaches that eternal life is eternal and in that case the "re-separation" you mention does not seem to be possible.

 

Once again, the point of salvation is the death of the flesh. It is the faith condition at that point that determines eternal life or the second death. So if you have faith when you die this second death, then you pass from death unto life. If you do not have faith at your physical death then the only alternative for you is the second death.

When something is unalterable, it is final, and the second death is final for it is unalterable. Once you die from the flesh in a state of unbelief, the decision has been made. You are judged and cast into the unalterable second death.

Now whether or not that second death is linearly speaking a short time or a long time doesn't matter, because it is unalterable.

The truth is, there is no lake of fire in the new heavens and new earth, for the first heavens and earth have passed away, vanished from before God. If God is everywhere, then where is the lake of fire in the New Heavens and Earth? The answer is they are gone just like this present heavens and earth are gone, never to be seen again.

Thanks for correctly spelling annihilation, I was without dictionary when I wrote my post, and just guessed at the spelling. Inhalation seems pretty silly in light of the truth.

 

I don't see it as a deterrent, but rather as a finality. Deterrance implies that life continues for that which is deterred. The second death implies finality, the discontinuance, or end of that upon which it is imposed.

Death of the flesh is a finality meaning that the flesh in the form once occupied by spirit is final and that flesh will not again see life. Death of the spirit must mean then that life is not possible beyond death. Death is a finality for that which dies.

Since the human spirit must be judged for its deeds, it must continue to live after the flesh dies. There can be no corruption in heaven and that is why the flesh cannot enter heaven. The spirit is not subject to the corruption of the flesh in the same manner that flesh corrupts. The spirit is judged for deeds, then all spirits are separated into believers and unbelievers. Believers are sheep, unbelievers are goats. In John 3;18 we are told that believers are not judged, save for deeds, but that unbelievers are judged already by their unbelief.

Since unbelievers are not judged but pass from death into life everlasting, it is only those who are not believers that are "not found in the book of life" that are cast into the lake of fire. Life everlasting implies that death is final and life ceases for those who are cast into the lake of fire. Otherwise they too have everlasting life in the state of death. We have nothing that provides an example of that happening. Granted, we are limited in the knowledge we may be given regarding the spiritual realm, however, that which the Old Testament prophesied has been revealed in the New Testament. Is there any reason to think that God changed his modus operendi regarding Prophesy in the New Testament? In other words, the Prophesies of the New Testament reveal what is to take place, which in the scope of eternity has already taken place, since it is recorded for us.

That is why I believe the second death is a finality for the souls of unbelievers. They cease to exist, and that is for all eternity! They will not return for a second chance, nay, they cannot return from the second death because it is final.

The Lake of fire in my opinion is a figurative place of final death for the evil and all who have no faith. As for a physical or geographic location of the lake of fire, your guess is as good as mine. What I see is when this heaven and earth pass away, so does the lake of fire, because revelation does not reveal the existance of one in the New Heaven and New Earth! However a New Jerusalem is revealed in some detail for us. So if a lake of fire were present it too would have been revealed, don't you think?

 

Perhaps we won't meet on this, but I did say "in my opinion". Meaning that I have no practical Knowledge on the matter.

The only image that 'Lake of fire' brings to mind is that of the cauldron of a volcano, a lake of burning sulfur, fire and brimstone. No life form on earth can survive being thrown into, that is, removed from the place of life sustinance, into the cauldron of a volcano where no life survives.

But then we are speaking of spirits being cast into the lake of fire, and spirit is impervious to mass in any of mass's forms, and is intended to be everlasting. So Yes in my opinion the lake of fire is a figurative place where everything evil and unbelieving are cast in a singular finality.

It is a place where the death of those cast into it is eternal, in that those cast in, are never again for the rest of eternity to come out of it, thus to those who are living eternally alive need never be concerned about those who were cast therein.

Eschatologically speaking, your understanding has no greater merit than mine. Neither of us has a complete enough picture of the details of the lake of fire to know. So it is a matter of conjecture. It is however, FINAL!

 

the lake of fire is not something that destroys. it is something that illuminates and allows us to understand without error. if evil is placed into it. evil is not destroyed. it is veiwed and understood for the reality for which it represents.

evil is never destroyed. it is overcome by understanding its weakness when its reality is judged alongside truth. much like mans memories of evil. they will never be destroyed. they are covered over. they are viewed alongside the corresponding truth that defines the errors worth.

spiritual death is the covering over of error. It is judged alongside truth. correctly aligning error in its proper prespective in view of its corresponding truth.

when Jesus states that he has defeated death and even fills all. It means that the truth he represents covers over all evil and surely outweights the value or worth of the error.

when something is said to be eternally being destroyed. it is eternally being evaluated for its weakness compared to its corresponding opposite.

all men contain evil and good. being eternally judged means that we are to be eternally evaluating the meaning or reality of both evil and Good.

Judgment in a sense can be viewed in that all die and then the "evaluation".
meaning we are forever in a cycle of repeated occurrances of experiencing the addition of our characters and then the process of reflection or evaluation of its meaning as opposed to its opposite.

 

I previously answered that quest in my first post on this topic. Here it is again,

You obviously are intent on proving that a human spirit which is "born dead" must be quickened by God before it can respond to God. Well since you won't accept the truth, Just Go right ahead and prove it!

 

Then why is it the final destination of EVIL and UNBELIEF?

Why is there nothing revealed in scripture of anyone who was cast into the lake of fire ever being released from it?

Why is it called the FINAL JUDGMENT!

Why are we told to "Overcome evil (repent)" while living this life IF that is something that is coming later?

My response to the rest of your post is that you drink too much Chickory!