Can you relate to this stuff?

disciple,

I was being funny. It was a joke. BTW, don't miss my acting debut in the next X-Men movie, "Attack of the Mutant Witches".:smilewinkgrin:

Joseph Botwinick

 

If by “this stuff,” you mean the testimony of the guy in the video... then I think it is probably real (or at least, could happen that way), although I don’t know what he means by “fireball(s).”
If by “this stuff,” you mean the content of the books that they sell on the Web site, then I’m really skeptical of it.

True.

(1) Most of the time, God is not interested in displays of power. Most of the time the Spirit works through quieter means. Miracles and power encounters are fairly rare events. I’ve had about eight or nine power encounters, but they all were confined to the period between 1987-1989 when I was ministering to and praying for a group of about 14 people heavily involved in the occult. I haven’t had a significant power encounter since, even though I’ve grown tremendously as a Christian.
(2) Experiences are merely experiences. They don’t necessarily help your own faith and they can easily lead to apathy in spiritual disciplines and pride. Furthermore, we shouldn’t seek experiences, we should seek God, His Kingdom and His righteousness in our lives.
(3) As far as God granting power goes, God does easily give gifts (or powers) to His children that can destroy them or others. Most believers in the Western world don’t know the first thing about growing in grace and participating in the transforming work of God that changes our character, gives us wisdom, and makes us the kind of person that God can trust with His power. For instance, if I had the gift of healing and could effectively call on it whenever I pleased, I’d spend my days running through hospitals and nursing homes, pulling people out of sick beds. I would get a lot of pleasure out of that, but I would also be undermining God’s purposes in sickness, aging and physical death.
(4) All that being said, you WILL have the power available that God wants you to have whenever it is in line with His will for your life. Most of the time the power of God is found in the exercise of the disciplines and the transformation of your own character and you intentionally take on the life of Christ. At other, much rarer times, the power of God will be used in miraculous ways for God’s purposes.
(5) And then, let’s not be naïve. In some Christian circles, miraculous signs and experiences are emphasized, so there is enormous pressure to invent or enhance experiences to ‘fit in’ to those groups. I’ve heard a number of crazy sounding stories over the years, where the Christians sound more like Jedi knights than humble servants of Christ. I’ve had some really odd experiences too, but they’re not the kind of things you want to talk about much.

The sad part of it is, we are already in the immediate presence of God and don’t need visions of throne rooms to have our prayers heard. Certainly Isaiah had such an experience (Isaiah 6), but he was terrified and it seemed to happen only once. If those folks tell you that their experience in the “throne room” of God was a comfortable one and don’t mention anything about feeling dread, then I wouldn’t believe it for a moment.

I think you are right.
We’re already in the “throne room” if we want to communicate with God. No paperback book is going to change that situation.

 

There is at least one account of (I think) a monk in the Middle Ages who at one point had sparks shooting from his fingertips. I'll try to look that up this evening and see what I can find.

I do need to point out that the report came from one of his disciples and the issues around static electricity may not have been adequately understood. Perhaps the monk was wearing wool?

And by the way, I don't actually think the guy in the video was claiming to throw an actual fireball. I think he is using some sort of charismatic lingo involving 'blowing' the Spirit toward that person.

 

I agree with Baptist Believer, this is a true problem with the church. We lean so much on our own understanding that we seem to deny any testimonies outside of our own experiences. This problem always existed, the Pharisees did it to Jesus and the Church still does it today. Read Acts 3:12, "And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?"

Even after all these years, the Church is still marveling at miracles. Jesus made it plain in all the Gospel's that with GOD, all things are possible. Jn 14:12-14 points out the Christian should not only have works equal to Jesus, but, "greater works than these shall he do." This coming from a man that man dead men leave the grave. However, the operative to cling to is they are always done so that GOD can be Glorified.

This is my hessitancy to accept some faith healers like Benny, as they are often the ones being glorified. One will say Benny healed me and not I was touched and healed by the power of GOD. Should I blame Benny for what the people say, probably not but I don't see him setting them strait.

This is why my initial response was, "Because I wasn't there I can only chalk it up to something I heard." At this point I neither believe or dis-believe his testimony but I am opened minded enough to meet the young man and get to know him as a person before having an opion. I'd even fellowship at his Church to see what his understanding is.

Recent story, one of our deacons had a heart attack and was in intensive care under a drug induced coma. I went to the room, the family was not their so as usual I read a few verses, kissed his forehead and prayed my usual prayer, "LORD, let thy will be done".

The family arrived several minutes after I left and he was awoke, mind you from a drug induced coma. The family jokingly gave me credit but I made sure they understood my prayer, "LORD, let thy will be done".

I pray this prayer because I don't know his will but try to be careful to always pray according to his will. His will might be to heal the person or to take the person home to be with HIM. Either way, I figure I'm safe :thumbs:

 

This assumes that pain is always some lesson or test from God, and it often leads to coldness when counseling people suffering from such things. And it is the same basic principle used by the health and wealth and signs and wonders teachers. God is doing this to you for some purpose, and they will cite Jesus as in showing the power to heal them physically, and we downplay physical healing, and focus on emotional heath instead (through having positive attitudes to sufffering, because God is doing it for good, and "changing our character" is often portrayed mechanistically though these "steps to victory", though non-believers can think positively and grow that way as well). And we still often use the same extravagant language of "healing" in those processes.
Pain is common to all (not just Christians God is transforming), and perhaps the reason God has withdrawn miraculous healing and signs and wonders is because to whom much is given, much is expected.

Arer these people the Super Mario Brothers or something? Maybe it was a holy fire flower!:laugh:

 

I make no such assumption.

God allows sickness to drive us to Himself so that we know we are dependent upon Him. Aging allows us to gracefully and purposefully let go of the things of the world and prepare for the fullness of the Kingdom in our lives when our physical body finally fails.

There are other purposes beyond the simple ones I mentioned, but that should in no way mean that we should be cold when ministering to people who are going through such things.

But sometimes it is just a virus!

Perhaps.

 

Once again, all get sick and age, including those outside of Christ whom God is not even working with. We cannot generalistically read such meaning into the everyday common experiences of life. Doing so does sell millions in the Christians teaching market however; and I'm not just talking about people like Hinn, or whatever.

But from what I have seen inc counseling, that all too often is the result. If God is doing it for your good, there is nothing to be sad, angry, fearful, or otherwise distraught about, so just get over it, just pray, etc. and some even accuse them of "sinning" if they don't get over it.

 

I believe you are the only one stressing the word all. There were many blind men in the days of Jesus and others that Jesus healed. Jesus said in John 9:3, "Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." He didn't say all men are blind so the works of GOD should be manifest but he was speaking about a specific blind man.

There was once a song that had the words, "no ones blinder then he who just won't see..." Who was that?

 

There's an old, old U2 song, "I Threw a Brick Through a Window," that includes the line, "No one is blinder than he who will not see."

The lyric was obviously referencing John 9:39-41.

There might be other songs that also include a similar line.

 

And how do you know that God is not working with them?

I’m not trying to throw down easy answers, but aging, sickness and death is certainly part of the way God has decided to allow the world to be.

Actually, Hinn doesn’t believe that sickness and death is a potentially positive thing like I believe it is. He believes that everyone should be healthy and prosper... and if you don’t, it’s because you don’t have enough faith.

I’ve been saying quite the opposite of that.

I’ve dealt with enough pain, sickness and physical death in my family to understand the reality of the pain and human need. Please don’t assume I have a Pollyanna attitude. I approach the grief of life with faith that God is at work and that one day all pain and grief will be redeemed.

Nope. I’m not one of Job’s friends. I’m also not a fatalist.

I just try to be like Jesus. I try to minister in the middle of the pain and need. If I feel led, I lay hands on someone and pray and sometimes they find physical healing. Many times they find spiritual healing. And that’s always available by faith. (And yes, I know it is a process!)

 

Possible, but I think some of us have made a formula out of it, where we assume it is the case practically all the time.

Whatever. Hinn was mentioned earlier, and when I spoke of people making millions of of a teaching I felt some might think I was talking about him. Others, however, it is everyone should of a necessity be emotionally healthy, and if you aren' t it's because you don't have enough faith that God is "working through your pain". Pople don't realize that that is a scaled down version of the same basic principle. Actually Joyce Meyers is a good example of a mixture of both teachings.