Can You Say Amen To This Message?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ed B, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. Ed B

    Ed B
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without doing any research on the messenger's broader body of work, denominational affiliation, etc. do you agree with the message presented in this video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRNXXhjFdqk


    In my opinion the basic message is very straight forward and good. There are nuances later in the video which, without clarification, could chaff against some Baptist distinctives.
     
  2. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    I can give that a big AMEN. :thumbsup:
     
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is works based salvation pure and simple.

    I do NOT give this guy an amen!
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    It is not possible to be free from sin until the day of redemption. If he thinks he is without sin then he is a liar.
     
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,227
    Likes Received:
    615
    Indeed. He has another video titled, "Sinning Believers are Not Born Again", wherein he asserts that "if you are born again you can stop sinning."
     
  6. padredurand

    padredurand
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Or Church of the Nazarene. Or both.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    Is that what they teach?
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    Ed do you believe that you are free from sin right now?
     
  9. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    371
    I also can’t muster up a full “amen.” I think that he confuses “repent and believe” with “repent and obey” (he takes repentance towards salvation to be repenting from sins rather than repenting from the life that manifests those sins). But he does have a cool beard.
     
  10. Ed B

    Ed B
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, as the message went on it began to be repent, believe and obey with security being dependent on not sinning or immediately asking for forgiveness if you do.

    I stumbled on this by accident. My interest in this as a question is because as I listened to it I found it at first refreshing to hear someone speak so clearly about the certainty of hell for the lost sinner. Then I was pleased to hear him state the way to avoid hell was repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins. Then I was disappointed when he started talking about sins committed after salvation.

    Since the intended audience for this message is the lost I wondered if I was being too critical of THIS message. I am not sure that the doctrinal distinction implied in the 2nd half of the video will matter to a sinner who is not acquainted with the Gospel. That is also why I wanted the responders to make an initial response based only this one message before checking out his other videos and messages and before knowing his doctrinal point of view from any other source.
     
  11. padredurand

    padredurand
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Article 10 of the CotN Articles of Faith



    Even more so in practice. Here's a little story that isn't that far from my experience with the denomination....

     
  12. Judith

    Judith
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    10
    NO! This guy is preaching works salvation. The bible (NT) NEVER says repent of your sin. It says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Also it NEVER says to ask to be forgiven for our sins to be saved. It says we must confess Jesus as Lord which is more than speaking the words "He is Lord".
    Salvation is received by a heart choice, not some work. Salvation takes repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    That means we come to the point where we want to get right with God no matter what the consequences or what is required. We are broken over our sin. At that point we are told to take that heart of repentance towards God and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ as the One we follow, faith is born and we are saved, (born again). From that time we are kept in a state of repentance and faith. 1John 3
     
    #12 Judith, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2013
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    He ended where he began. We're all going to hell even after 'salvation' according to his gospel.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,927
    Likes Received:
    96
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    That is a rather unorthodox view of repentance.
     
  16. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Repentance towards God, doesn't it also entail turning from your sins? Also, repentance is a gift of God. The "heart choice" is after God has broken the stony heart and given a fleshly heart.
     
  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with padre. Maybe both.

    Once went to a Nazarene church with a lady friend who insisted they "teach the same things you Baptists believe." Attended her Sunday school class. Oooh, boy!

    Within the first five minutes, her SS teacher claimed he "hasn't sinned in over 21 years."

    Got up and left. She couldn't figure out what I was so upset about.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,080
    Likes Received:
    49
    they are offshoots of the Weslyn movement, as were groups such as holiness churches...

    Hold to one can get basicall sin free by fully relying upon th Holy spirit, in a "Baptism" of empowering, which Wesley saw originally as second act of grace, to give us sinless living, but had to recant away from sinless perfection, to the place where all good works done and motivatedby love of God! Soa llt he works done would be perfect....
     
  19. Judith

    Judith
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    10
    The bible (NT) NEVER says turn from your sin to be saved. That is works salvation. We are to turn to God and come to faith in Jesus as Lord. The results of that will be salvation (the new birth) and the turning from sin. Turning from sin is the result of salvation not the avenue to it.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    371
    I agree with you here.

    While repentance towards God certainly implies repentance from something, I don’t think it is merely from sins (I see this as a product of repentance). If I am a thief and become saved, repentance from steeling is a product of repentance from my own nature (my old self, my self-righteousness, etc) and turning towards God. If I just stop steeling, well, that doesn’t necessarily mean anything - except maybe I won’t go to jail. Individual sins are manifestations of the problem. Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin - to turn from something is to turn to something else. But it’s not me turning from sins, but me turning from my own nature and my own righteousness and towards God.
     

Share This Page

Loading...