CanAmerica Survive the Changes Being Made?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    The changes Obama is making in America can never be reversed by another President or its Legislative body, because to change the magnitude of things he's set into motion would not only cause personal pain, but tremendous anger among the groups of society in which those changes favor. Changes such as his Affordable Care Act, gays serving openly in the military, the two-year deportation deferral program [or trial amnesty], and his recognitions of the right for gays to marry are but a few changes he's made in America that have not only made him a favorite among those minorities, but a sure bet to result in strong emotional resistance and possible hostility on behalf of those who benefited from those changes over his eight-year term. Any future leaders who even tried to tamper with their entitlements would meet with such resistance that nationwide protests, riots, uprising, notwithstanding civil war.

    To say that Obama hasn't brought change to America is not true. However, the kind of change he's brought to America is the radical kind of change that will cause the minorities slated for those changes to bond together with other minorities should changes be attempted by future administrations, bringing about a social/cultural divide in this nation that could end in gloom and doom for the land of the free.The only way America can regain the style of life it once knew and held dear, would be to fall prey to a dictatorship like government, absent and void of any form of democracy. A dictatorship would serve two purposes. First, it would reign in the spending and use military strength to quell those who rebel. Secondly, it would reestablish the society back to its days of Victorian values and morals, all-be-it, by force. And finally, the people would eventually rise up and demand a return to a democratic society of free people. This the cycle would be complete! However, before America could regain its old way of life, an iron-fisted government would need to be situated properly to make changes by way of force, if necessary, because the entitled would not accept going back to the old ways without a fight. In other words, America as we knew it, would be a nation of anarchy, conflict and chaos.

    Take, for example, this tremendous quote and insight from Alexis de Tocqueville: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes between the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”

    This society, under President's Obama, Bush and Clinton have found that they can now elect leaders who will enact under law, the type of programs that will transition them more towards a society of entitled people, enabling their entitled mentality to believe the government will take care of their every need from the cradle to the grave. However, this sense of complete entitlement is as unrealistic as it is fiscally impossible to maintain over a period of time. In short, the treasuries of an entitled nation will one day run dry, leaving the nation, its government and its people in a state of utter chaos. A country of entitled citizens will eventually crumble from within and set itself up for take over by a dictator like government. It would take this kind of government to reign in the anger and disorder on behalf of the entitled who would turn against its leaders for failing to provide as they once promised. It would take a dictator like government to reign supreme and with an iron-fist, make use of its military to anarchy, social and civil dissension and unrest, riots and civil war like atmosphere that would follow a failed entitled society.

    The only way this fate can be avoided here in America is for the elected leaders to make hard and difficult choices now. Choices that reign in entitlement programs and put people back to work, earning the right to medical care and other things now expected and seen as rights by the entitled fringe of this American society.

    Secondly, those who feel they are completely entitled because it is their civil right, will eventually have to face reality when they see that its nation treasuries and leaders cannot possibly continue to meet their ever increasing needs and demands. This kind of belief would require the people to get out from under their selfish umbrella, roll up their sleeves and begin to earn their way once again, which means they are now contributing to the society that they once believed owed them everything! However, like any addiction, this frame of mind (entitlement) would be next to impossible to break free of without a harsh dose of reality, simply because they grew accustomed to, over time, to have his or her lifestyle made available to them by an over-generous government and leaders who served to make promises they had to know ( day one) that they could not honestly deliver on indefinitely.

    Without Americans pulling together to pull their own weight, this nation is headed in the same direction as so many others, such as the Roman Empire, to name just one.

    I would challenge every American to move from the Entitled Frame of Mind; roll up their sleeves and return to being productive. This is the only thing that can turn this out-of-control juggernaut around.

    It's the only way to save America! I'm more than willing to do my part, which will begin with fervent prayer. Are you with me! :type:
     
  2. ktn4eg

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    In my church's ( www.lighthouseministries.org ) Life Group that I attended this past Wednesday (11/07/2012) one of the principle topics for discussion was ---"NOW WHAT??!!??

    Well, obviously there were varying opinions as to what people thought that God "was trying to tell us," but, of course none, of us was able to give us THE definitive reason that God had allowed the POTUS to be re-elected.

    We looked at the story of Joseph in Genesis, Haman vs. Mordechi in Esther, and what happened with both the three Hebrew children and with Daniel himself in the book of Daniel to give us some perspective from God's Word about perserveving under pressure.

    All that we were able to concude from God's Word was that, regardless of what DOES happen in the next four years, we must "keep on, keeping on."

    Being somewhat of a history buff, I oftentimes park in the book of Habakkuk where God revealed to him that very soon God was going to judge Judah for its sins by allowing Babylon to swoop into Judah and bring it under captivity.

    In Habakkuk 2:1-4 essentially the prophet tells us that, even though he just couldn't understand why God was going to do what He'd just got through revealing to Habakkuk that He was going to do, Habakkuk, in so many words, tells us that he was just going to sit in his watch tower and see through the eyes of faith what God would, in fact, do.

    IMHO, I think that there's a lesson here for us 21st Century believers too: In spite of all that may happen to our republc, we're still going to serve God and trust Him for the outcome.

    "Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there be no herd in the stalls: YET I WILL REJOICE IN THE GOD OF MY SALVATION. The LORD God is my strength, AND HE will make my feet like hinds feet, AND HE WILL make me to walk upon my high places." --- Habakkuk 3:17-19a (KJV)
     
  3. percho

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    The answer I believe is found, "Lord teach us to pray."

    Righteousness needs to be worldwide.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Folks.... I believe that the majority of us are at the AARP Maturity stage of our lives. Now is our time to show a mellow & mature confidence to the younger generations. We need to project a Father/Grandfatherly/ Wise Man level of confidence.....we should be sitting on the edge of our families, offering both Faith in our Lord, the security that only God provides, and a hint of caution to beware the world that does not walk in Christ. This Wise individual will not stifle others with closedness & rigidity, dogmatic political opinions, or an Archie Bunker world-view. Rather he offers a world-view in which we feel both safe & adventurous.

    Brothers (& Sisters), it is our responsibility to change this whole cycle. There has to be a different way! No civilization has survived unless the elders saw it as their central task to pass on wisdom to the young.
     
  5. Humblesmith

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    True

    RD, you are correct. The next years will be like watching a wreck in very slow motion. The outcome is inevitable and everyone knows it, but it's still painful to watch. You are correct that we will never be able to change the public attitude, for no elected leader will ever vote to remove the entitlement payments. In effect, we have preached to Nineveh, and Nineveh did not repent. Somehow I don't think it wise to sit on the hill and watch what is about to happen.

    The economic disaster is inevitable. How long it takes is yet to be seen. I do not know whether it will be quick or slow. Greece has been near collapse for a while now, and their collapse is also inevitable.

    Yes, we can sit under our gray hair and try to give advice to the young. But all we can tell them is to try to live righteously in Babylon, for we have no power to change Babylon.

    We've focused so long on teaching inside our churches that we failed to teach the public, and will be reaping what we've sown.
     
  6. mont974x4

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    No, America cannot survive. And as much as that pains me to say I think it is a good thing. God is in control and His will is perfect.

    One thing that occurred to me this morning is the possibility that God will use this time to force Christians to really consider their citizenship. We must be Christians first, and Americans 2nd....or maybe even 3rd, 4th....or not at all.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    I believe that the country passed the point of no return with the election Tuesday. I would not argue that the country would have experienced a complete reversal under Romney but the decline would have slowed dramatically.

    It is a mathematical fact that Obama could not have won the election without significant support from professing Christians!
     
  8. mont974x4

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    I think you're right, on both statements.

    I have often said that Bush was steering us towards a cliff. In fact, since the Great Depression I don't know that any president hasn't. The issue, IMO, is that Obama not only adjusted for straight run for the cliff he also put the hammer down.

    I agree that Obama would not have been elected had it not been for Christian voters. The Church, in America at least, has abdicated its God given responsibility to the givernment. I misspelled that on purpose because it is not so much about governing as it is about seeing the government as the giver of all things good. Instead of churches being the main organizations to meet the needs of the poor and oppressed we have satisfied ourselves with the lie that paying taxes is how we do "the Lord's work" in such cases. Many have also bought into the lie that you cannot care for about the poor unless you do so through the givernment. So, the thinking goes, that if you are Christian you should care about the poor and that means voting for Democrats. They have also bought the lie that war is always evil and unnecessary and the Republicans are the party of war...despite what our history actually shows us.
     
  9. sdcoyote

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    Rome, a land far more sinful than our own, lasted thousands of years. Greece, before her, did the same. Chinese dynasties did as well. The Aztecs perfected human sacrifice and practiced it for hundreds of years.

    We, I fear, are much too quick to point to our current trouble and believe it is the worst thing that has ever happened.

    It's not.

    In my lifetime and in my job (I am a professor at a state school), I have been able to talk a number of young women out of having an abortion. My wife and I have adopted three children born to a meth addict. My family spends much time on mission trips within our state. Let it be said, however, that even these actions are rags of filth when compared to God's righteousness. Still, I believe those are the things that matter. Voting, to me, is often times little more than a popularity contest, where casting lot for the "cool kids" are what matters.

    America survive? I suspect so. But if she doesn't I will not be moved from my walk with Christ.
     
  10. Humblesmith

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    I have traveled abroad a little, but never lived anywhere but the US. Those of you who have lived overseas......what are the cultures like? It's hard for me to believe that they are all as wacko and immoral as what we see in the US. I also wonder whether other countries are as deeply separated in viewpoints as the US is.

    For those of you who have lived abroad, how would you compare living in other cultures to the US?

    I no longer have any hope for America.
     
  11. Logos1560

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    One large factor in Obama's re-election was the fact that a very large number of white voters who voted in 2008 did not vote in 2012. Likely there are always a good number who vote one year but do not the next time for various reasons. Perhaps a good number of those non-voters were dead or in hospitals.

    I wonder if a large number of those other non-voters did not support Obama and would not vote for him, but would not also vote for Romney because he was Mormon. If that was the case, those non-voters did in effect indirectly provide aid to Obama's re-election.

    Among actual voters, I do not know that Obama received any more support from professing Christians than a Democrat candidate typically would receive. Perhaps most of the professing Christians that voted for him would be among Blacks where around 93% voted for Obama and among Hispanics.

    Romney is actually said to have done well among Evangelicals that actually voted except possibly among young voters ages 18-29. Romney's margin of support among those voters may have been large enough to win in a typical election without the greater number of Hispanics voters and the larger number of non-voters among whites.

    The non-voters who had voted in 2008 seem to be a significant factor in Obama's re-election.
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    To answer the OP: Nope. :tear:
     
  13. webdog

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    Good thread with some excellent responses. I am also in the boat that thinks we are done as a nation, that the USA we grew up with was put on life support in 08 and the plug was pulled Tuesday. Now we just wait for the inevitable to happen, irrelevance in the world. I was both sad and excited Tuesday night. Its hard to see a loved one go. On the flip side it puts us that much closer to Christ's return, and I really believe it is going to be much sooner than we think.
     
  14. ktn4eg

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    I've spent time in at least eight countries in my almost 23 years in the USAF / Air National Guard. Moreover my church ( www.lighthouseministries.org ) has at least four or five outreaches within the Metro Nashville-Davidson County region of middle TN whose goal is to reach the 40- to 50,000 + refugees that God has sent to this area that we call home.

    I've spent time talking to probably a half dozen or more political and/or economic refugees from places as far apart from each other as Nepal (where Mt. Everest is located) and Sudan and Korea.

    They all tell me how thrilled they are to come the U.S. where, even though they may live in a small, non-air conditioned, rat-infested, bare-boned ramshackle apartment with only a 30-watt light bulb dangling by a frayed cord to serve as the only source of light and whichthey must often share with two or three other refugee families.

    Every last one I talked to (some via an interpretor) has told me about the same thing: They wouldn't trade having to live like they do for a day back from whence they came.

    We may complain about having to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, etc., when we dial that toll-free number, but at least we have enough to afford to buy a phone.

    We may complain about how long we have to stand in line at the checkout counter while the clerk there explains to that strange-looking person fumbles for their food stamps because they only know Burmese. But at least we have grocery items that fill our shopping carts.

    We may not like the outcome of the last presidential and/or congressional, etc., elections. But at least we HAVE elections as opposed to some rogue warlord whose own militia, without any warning, grabs your daughter and publicly humiliates her in some remote village square after which she's strung up, lynched, and left dangling in the breeze while you see her die.

    We may complain about the long lines we often face at the DMV when it comes time to renew our drivers licenses or registration, but at least we have a car that drives on something better than a camel trail.

    Yes, this republic has problems, and they may get worse and worse as time progresses. We may see mortage rates climb, but at least we most of us don't live in a thatched hut along with some goats.

    Yes, things may get really bad and we may have to give up that wide-screen HD TV we've had hanging on the wall, or that microwave oven, or those gas logs in the fireplace that give off their warm glow, etc.

    But at least we HAD them to give up.

    Things may get tough. But compared to what the average person in the rest of the world has to endure every day of his average 40-year life span due to lack of clean water and other diseases for which we here can pay $20-$30 to be inoculated from, I'd say this:

    Thank God for the USA!

    "I complained because I had no shoes..........

    until I saw a man who had no feet."
     
  15. Humblesmith

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    Thanks for the reply and good info, ktn4eg. All other things being equal, I'm sure I'd rather be in a low rent place in the US as opposed to almost any place in many countries. There's no doubt we have the highest physical standards. But I'm wondering....the people you know, are they believers? I'm not complaining about the luxuries we have. What I get tired of is the constant glorying in immorality, the constant degradation of society, the everlasting ridicule of my beliefs, the increasingly being forced to pay for things I disagree with fervently. After 30 years of doing what little I could to try to make it better, it is worse, and there is all the signs of an eventual meltdown.
    I'm just wondering if there is someplace that is still moral, peaceful, and friendly to Christians. I'd be willing to give up the paved roads and drive through burger joints and movie theaters if I could get away from the culture that is anti-Christian.

    Plus, socialism never works, and we've now embraced it as a culture. Socialism inevitably brings economic failure.

    Yes, thank God for the USA. But sadly, not enough people valued the things that made it great, and we've lost the opportunity to keep it. I have lost hope in the USA.
     
    #15 Humblesmith, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2012
  16. ktn4eg

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    Lest people think that I've naively bought into the "America, Right or Wrong, But America" camp---I haven't.

    Is the US really (as President Reagan would often tell us) that "City on the Hill"?

    IMHO, I seriously doubt that it ever, 24/7/365, could have attained (in absolutely every way possible) to the expectations some of us would have....yea...DEMANDED....of it down through the years.

    No, the US isn't that place for which Abraham could finally call in his servants and say, "Start putting down that permanent foundation, fellows; we finally made it!!"

    It is (and always has been) fraught with failures and shortcomings.

    To prove that, I can go less than about 5 miles from where I sit right now, and my feet will be on the same ground that some 180 years ago was the route that some Cherokee, et.al., Indians trod as they were forcibly removed from their homes to travel what is known as "The Trail of Tears."

    Is everyone to which I referred in my last post a true believer in Christ?

    Some are, but then I'd venture to say that most aren't. But all of them are ones that our Creator saw fit to place in His world and in His timing.

    The point I was trying to make was that, as we survey the broad spectrum of life here on earth from Adam until today, is that, if we're honest with ourselves and to our Maker and Sustainer, is that "We Blew It!!"

    We HAVE taken what I feel was gift from Our Father and rubbed it in His Face---the very Face that had to turn away from His only begotten Son as He hung on the cross some 1,980 years ago.

    I, too, believe that "we" may have turned a corner from which there may be no turning back.

    Will there be any (or enough) Mordecai's to warn us that, unless WE (you and me) start being (and doing) what WE (you and me) were told what to do in His world: Humble ourselves, and pray, and seek His face, AND TURN FROM OUR WICKED WAYS---we may be facing the exact same future that Ezekiel warned God's people would (and did!) take place some 2,600 years ago.

    No, we're NOT OT Israel (Thank God, we're NOT!!), BUT, as the Holy Spirit moved Paul to write in Romans 15:4 & 1 Cor. 10:11-12 ("....whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning..../....are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."), we ARE COMMANDED to---just as Jesus (via John on the Isle of Patmos some 1,200 years ago) said to the church at Laodicea): "....be zealous therefore, AND REPENT." (Rev. 3:19)

    ------------------------------------------------


    "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; ..... " ---- Psalm 33:12a












    (And the opposite of that is also true!)
     
  17. Berean

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    My sentiments exacly WD, I had a pastor who had a great expression. "It is getting gloriously dark".
     

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