Caperberry Gravy Recipe

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Nov 27, 2008.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Just in time for Thanksgiving Supper!

    Caperberry Gravy

    Ingredients
    • 50 g caperberries
    • 2 cups beef broth or vegetable broth
    • 1 teaspoon flour (use more or less to thicken)
    • 2 tablespoons butter
    • salt
    • pepper

    Directions
    Melt butter in a saucepan.
    Add broth and mix.
    Add caperberries and mix.
    Add flour and mix.
    Simmer on low heat until it thickens.
    If needed, add more flour until desired thickness is achieved.
    Add salt and pepper to your liking.


    also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
    Ecclesiastes 12:5 AV 1873


    ...and desire fails,
    Ecclesiastes 12:5 ESV


    and desire fails;
    Ecclesiastes 12:5 NRSV

    Furthermore, men are afraid of a high place and of terrors on the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags himself along, and the caperberry is ineffective. For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street.
    Ecclesiastes 12:5 NASB95

    Remember him before you become fearful of falling and worry about danger in the streets; before your hair turns white like an almond tree in bloom, and you drag along without energy like a dying grasshopper, and the caperberry no longer inspires sexual desire. Remember him before you near the grave, your everlasting home, when the mourners will weep at your funeral.
    Ecclesiastes 12:5 NLT

    The word for desire / caperberry is:

    אֲבִיּוֹנָה [˒abiyyonah] f., prop. appetite, desire (from the root אָבָה No. 1), hence the caper berry, which is said to stimulate both appetite and sexual desire (Plut. Quæst. Symp. vi. 2; Plin. N. H. xiii. 23; xx. 15), Ecc. 12:5. It is rendered caper by the LXX., Vulg., Syr. The Rabbies use the the pl. אֶבְיוֹנִין as denoting not only capers, but also the small fruits of trees, as myrtles, olives, etc.
    Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures, 5.

    The primary meaning of this root is “the willingness (inclination) to do something under obligation or upon request.”
    Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, (1999, c1980), 004.

    Septuagint:
    κάππᾰρις, εως, ἡ, the caper-plant, or its fruit, the caper, Latin, capparis, Aristotle (Deriv. unknown.)
    Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon (1996), 400.

    1. Which version is the most literal?

    2. What version(s) best communicates the meaning of the passage?

    3. If the caperberry doesn’t create sexual desire, is the Bible errant?


    Rob
     
    #1 Deacon, Nov 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2008
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
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    "This is certainly one of the many passages in which the A.V. far exceeds the R.V. in beauty as well as accuracy, and shows that the A.V. is a Version, while the R.V. is a Translation."
    E.W. Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (1898), 687.
     
  3. Keith M

    Keith M
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    Wonder what Bullinger's definitions of "version" vs. "translation" were?

    We have only one version of the Bible while we have many different translations. All legitimate Bible translations, with the exception of "translations" which were "translated" so errant cults like the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists can finally have "scripture" in agreement with their errant teachings, are the same version - none tell a different version of God's message. Despite using various words, the different translations all tell us the same thing - God's message to us. Therefore, one version, many translations.
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Here's the context of what Bullinger wrote:
    He mentions an earlier discussion of this verse where he wrote:
    I've been reading the NLT of late.
    Ecclesiastes 12 was a bright spot in the translation, quite enlightening!

    To answer my own questions (you can disagree :thumbs: ):

    1. Which version is the most literal? Of those given, the NASB is the most literal.

    2. What version(s) best communicates the meaning of the passage?
    The A.V., ESV and NRSV adequately convey the meaning but the NLT provides the link to the original words.

    3. If the caperberry doesn’t create sexual desire, is the Bible errant?
    Bullinger's got a case. If the use of the word capeberry was purely a figure of speech, then we might ignore this implication.
    We've got our scientifically proven wonder drugs; we know the caperberry doesn't work any better than Rhinoceros tusk...but it was the best that they had at the time.

    Here's a long quote from Michael Heiser concerning Inspiration and Inerrancy: Distinguishing Ends and Means, Process and Product from his blog:
    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, Nov 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2008
  5. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    Interesting verse! Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Rob.
    First, any euphemism by disguising the plain meaning of the original idea risks the possibility of completely failing to communicate that meaning the reader, and that risk is greatly increased as the reader is further removed by time & cultural distance from the original statement.

    Second, the use of an euphemism here eliminates the triune imagery from nature; that is, the caperberry is in complete harmony with the almond tree and the grasshopper references.
     
    #5 franklinmonroe, Dec 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2008

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