Capital Punishment And The Bible

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Dec 5, 2002.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    With what has been going on in the news lately I felt this would be a good topic to get some thoughts on. I submit the following article I found on the net and would like to hear your views!... Pro and con and if our views upon Capital Punishment have changed when the Bible especially the Old Testament is very explicit.

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/defdocs/2002/dd-02-01.htm

    Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  2. Johnv

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    This has been discussed a few times.

    My view is that capital punishment is allowable, according to the Bible. However, there's a difference between allowable and necessery. If the US concinues to use Capital Punishment, I don't think that's wrong. However, if the US decides to abandon capital punishment, I don't think that's wrong, either.

    The problem we get into with this debate is that many who are pro-capital punishment feel that it's wrong if you don't utilize it.
     
  3. Helen

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    As long as men are created in the image of God, capital punishement is commanded for first degree murder.

    Genesis 9:5-6.

    Long before the Ten Commandments or the laws to the nation of Israel, this single command was given immediately after the Flood and is for all men at all times. The reason is also given.

    We ignore it at our own risk and peril.
     
  4. Daniel David

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    No capital punishment = no respect for life.
     
  5. Phillip

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    Very good, Helen. Another example I like to use is the thief on the cross next to Jesus who told the other thief they were getting what they deserved and Jesus was innocent. If people will notice, Jesus saved his soul while allowing the punishment of the "state" to continue as ordered...in other words "the death penalty". Even the thief recognized he had to die and he did not expect Jesus to save him from the physical death. He also knew that Jesus was innocent and did not deserve the "death penalty".

    [ December 09, 2002, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]
     
  6. Ben W

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    I dont agree with Capital Punishment on the basis that I feel that if they are murdered without knowing Jesus Christ they will go to hell. If someone is given a life sentance there is a possibility that person will come to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour. There will be many more opportunities to share the Gospel with that person.

    Can God use you if you have shed blood and murdered someone? David wanted to build the temple and could not because he had shed blood. Obviously the act of shedding blood does something to you spiritually. How can we then ask someone else to shed blood?

    John Newton penned the words "Amazing grace! how sweet the sound that saved a Wretch like me" This grace extends, even to a murderer.
     
  7. Helen

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    Ben, it is not a matter of our own logic concerning the matter, but of obedience to God. Never forget that He loves that man more than his own mother loved him! God will not allow one person to die without having done everything possible to present Himself to that person as God, allowing that person to respond or not, as he chooses.

    Our job is to obey God, not to second-guess Him...
     
  8. Mike McK

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    Actually, the Bible differentiates capital punishment from "murder".

    The verb used in Ex 20:13 is "ratsach" and is translated "to murder".

    "Ratsach" is used more than 49 times in the OT and never once refers to capital punishment.

    Besides, how could God command us to "murder" someone if murder was against His laws?

    As for delaying capital punishment so that the prisoner might hear the Gospel, that's God's call, not ours.

    If He's commanded us to do it, which He has, then our only responsibility is to carry out His commands and let Him worry about the consequences.
     
  9. Bible-belted

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    Johnv,

    You got it right! [​IMG]
     
  10. LadyEagle

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  11. stubbornkelly

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    Well, it might be nice to discuss it in a more open forum so others can express their views as well.
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    Discuss...go for it! (Just pointing out the other thread.) [​IMG] Was under the impression the Fundy Forum was open to all Baptists, as is this Baptist Only Forum, but perhaps I'm not up to speed. [​IMG]

    Hmmm...Can we figure out who is pro and who is con?

    Here's my guess (top 5 combatants each category):

    Pro:
    SheEagle911
    Murph
    Joseph
    Justified
    Helen

    Against:
    Stubbornkelly
    Johnv
    InHim
    Rev Josh
    Candide (may jump up here to make a point) :D

    Gentlemen (and ladies)....Start your engines please! ;)

    But what does the BIBLE SAY?

    Carry on.... [​IMG] :D [​IMG]
     
  13. tyndale1946

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    Interesting comments from everyone and I didn't know this was discussed in the fundy forum as I don't go there. One question in regards to Capital Punishment... Is not the murder of a human being murder?... I went to Vietnam and fought for my country and if I killed anyone I don't know as I was in tanks. If I did was not it murder?... If I was captured by the enemy wouldn't I be tried according to their laws of war for murder and executed?... How do you separate the two?... And yes I did lie in wait with malice of forethought... Kill him before he kills me!... I would be interested to hear from other brethren who have been in this situation... With Saddam Hussain on the horizon! Or are we excused because of circumstance and society? Do not the scriptures state that the Lord is a man of War? Exodus 15:3... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren [​IMG]

    [ December 10, 2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  14. LadyEagle

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    Now, Glen, I would be interested in hearing about this, too, from those who have served in the Military , as combatants. [​IMG]
     
  15. stubbornkelly

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    Oh, gotcha, SheEagle. [​IMG]

    My understanding is that if the murder is justified (under a particular standard - almost anyone can find a reason to do just about anything), then it's not murder, but killing, which is not what the commandment against murder refers to.
     
  16. Pastork

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    I am a member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. I have served in the Navy and taken part in the taking of human lives. I did not see this as the sin of murder, because I do not think that the Bible disallows killing by a military person in behalf of his country. Perhaps I am wrong, but I should think that, if this were sinful, we would have examples in the Bible of Christians having been prohibited from military service. As it is, there were many converts among the Roman legions, but we have no command telling any of them to refuse further service. For example, Peter never tells Cornelius to leave the military. There are other arguments to be made, but I would be interested in any thoughts you all may have about this point.

    Pastork

    [ December 10, 2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]
     
  17. Jim1999

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    Pastork,
    I served in Korea as a chaplain and had to address the question of "killing" quite often to Christian men and women serving their country.

    I found nothing in scripture to deny the defence of one's country or fighting for what is morally right. Sadly, taking a life is part of that defence, and many a man wept when faced with their first victim.

    In the heat of battle, one scarcely has time to think about it. It is in the quiet time the mind plays havoc and guilt forms. Then, I thought about the letters I had to write to a waiting family back home. These letters went both ways. I think this is the difference between wanton killing and the defence of one's country. The soldier has a conscience and thinks about the consequences. The wanton killer does not, and kills for the sake of killing. God bless those who serve.

    I would not class this as capital punishment, however. The state's taking of a life is an act of legislation, and one would think that civilization has evolved beyond that. Beside, so many mistakes have been made by the judiciary and so many innocent people have been killed.

    In 1952, a 17 year old lad was hanged in London, England. Fifty years late, the Royal Post delivered a letter of apology to the family; he was proven innocent.

    Recently,a woman who received Christ into her life and witnessed to that effect, was executed in Texas. What a waste of a life.

    I believe it was 14 Black men waiting on death row in Illinois were found completely innocent by DNA and new evidence that a few young students, working on their behalf, discovered.

    A young lad of 14 was sentenced to be hanged in Ontario, Canada in the fifties. His sentence was halted by the then prime minister, Diefenbaker. He was later released, and found innocent in the sense that a study of the case determined there was no way he could have been in the area at the time. Remember, he would have hanged.

    It was a hanging offence in early Ontario to be caught stealing a loaf of bread. Hangings were public in those days and people picked pockets whilst the hangings were going on. Some deterrent for those who think a capital punishment is a deterrent.

    In every instance where capital punishment is defended in the scriptures, it is on a state's authority. Hence, the state has the sole right to enforce it or not.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. Pastork

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    Jim,

    I agree that capital punishment and killing in defense of one's country are two separate issues. I only brought up the issue of killing as a part of the military because their was a request to hear from those of us with such experience. Of course, the two issues are similar in that they both involve the question of certain acts of killing another human being that are not considered to be the sin of murder.

    Pastork
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Keep going, guys. This is really getting interesting. Having never served in the military or in military action, it is interesting to hear from believers who have been there, done that. [​IMG]
     
  20. Johnv

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    See? Told ya ;)

    [ December 10, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     

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