Carnal Christians: Yes? No?

Yes he thinks he is. He is a carnal Christian, case closed.

 

Hello Allan,
In post 18 I posted two links that explain it really well.When pastor Martin describes Paul's teaching in Romans 8 I think you will be satisfied with the explanation....I will post some of it now:

 

I have heard/listened to them.. and did not find them satisfactorily scriptural.

 

Good question. I believe that even a born again believer can sin and that this sin might even last for a season. But what I don't believe is that a born again believer can live in an ongoing lifestyle of willful disobedience, not feel conviction about it, not feel remorse over it, and not be repentant over it.

The problem is that we're so afraid to present the Biblical Gospel for fear of what the lost might say about us, that we pretend that somebody who says, "I said a prayer when I was nine years old and I've been living like the Devil for thirty years and now, praise God, I'm rededicating my life to the Lord" has a valid salvation testimony.

So in one sense, yes, I think you can backslide. However, the Bible makes the distinction between the carnal, sinful nature and the new, spiritual nature one receives upon being born again very clear so I don't believe a Christian can be carnal.

 

I guess Paul was wrong then?

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (1 Corinthians 3:3-4)

 

Your understanding of Paul is wrong, yes.

 

No, it isn't. I don't see how anyone can misunderstand this clear-cut passage:

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (1 Corinthians 3:3-4)

He tells these believers at Corinth that they are carnal. There is only one way to take that statement: "You are carnal Christians." There is only one meaning to that passage: "You are carnal Christians." I don't find any other meaning.

He says: I can't feed you with meat.
You still have a diet of milk. Why? Because you are carnal Christians.
The carnality of the world stunts spiritual growth in the Christian. They will never attain the level of spirituality that Paul is referring to unless they separate from their worldliness, their divisiveness, their carnality.

 

I'm with DHK. It's as plain as the nose on most folks face.

 

And yet, you've managed to do just that.

 

Denial without evidence is not proof nor is it truth.

 

Look at how Paul uses the idea of carnality in Romans 8: 1-8:

How can one be carnal, when to be carnally minded is death and the carnal mind is at emnity with God, and yet, be a Christian? Where in the Bible are Christians ever described as being at emnity with God? I thought that we were reconciled to God and made children of His.

Now look at the next passage:

Paul very clearly makes a distinction between those who are in the flesh (carnal) and those who who are in the Spirit (spiritual) and makes it very clear that those who are in the flesh do not belong to Christ.

 

A couple of comments.
First, context defines a word. You have taken the word "carnal" out of Romans 8 and tried to define its usage in 1Cor.3 by its usage in Romans 8. That doesn't work. Define carnal in the context of 1Cor.3, and stick to the context that Paul is using in 1Cor.3, not in Romans 8. That is one of the primary rules of hermeneutics.

You ask the question, "where in the Bible are Christians ever described as being at enmity with God?"

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)

The carnal Christian is the enemy of God. Is that strong enough language? God hates carnality in the Christian, and has much to say about it. Check Romans 12:2; 1John 2:15,16.

 

Actually, I never even mentioned 1 Cor 3, but thanks for completely misrepresenting what I said.

And you really believe he's describing Christians, huh?

I stand by the question I asked you in my last post.

 

James 4:5 Do you think that the scripture says in vain, The spirit that dwells in us lusts to envy?

Apparently they were Christians.

 

I have. You have been the one that has been consistently denying my interpretation of 1Cor.3 throughout. So step up to the plate. Your interpretation of Romans 8 does not negate the plain words of Paul in 1Cor.3 as Paul writes to the believers there and plainly tells these believers "You are carnal."
Nothing you post has told me that Paul is a liar, or that my interpretation is wrong. Paul meant what he said, and said what he meant. His Greek is as good as the English we read it in. It is a closed case except it were for someone's bias.

Again context is key. Who is James writing to? He is writing to believers. Every chapter he addresses as "brethren." He does not address unbelievers as "brethren." The entire theme of the book is "Practical Christian Living." He is teaching how to live a practical life in this world. And carnality is not one of those ways.

A few verses later we find that he is speaking to brethren:
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. (James 4:11)

In the following verse that I quoted to you (4), here is what he says:
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5)
--The spirit (meaning the Holy Spirit) dwells in US, (James includes himself) lusts to envy? No it does not. One that is given to carnality does, but the Holy Spirit does not.

The previous verse that I quoted to you (4) speaks of prayer:
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. (James 4:3)
--Their prayers were carnal and not spiritual. They were asking for the wrong things, selfish things. In the midst of these two verses, James says this:

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)
--Absolutely, he is speaking to Christians. Look again in the context:

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:3-5)
--How can you come to any other conclusion? This is written to Christians not to live a carnal life. God hates it.

I sit behind mine, as I type it out.
But I am sure that your position is wrong.

 

If you believe you can be carnal and still be a Christian, then I guess that explains a lot.

 

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (1 Corinthians 3:3-4)

It explains what you cannot explain, and therefore resort to personal attack. This is typical isn't it?

 

Did you have time to listen to the posted sermon or look at the posted links,they answer quite nicely.

 

Yes, sadly, your false accusations are typical of this place.

 

There is no false accusation. Three times (at least) I have asked you this:

That was my last quote.
Each and every time you have failed to expound that passage. You have failed miserably. You won't even touch it. All you give is a denial making Paul a liar. Your basic answer is "there is no such thing as a carnal Christian," after I quote a passage where Paul says "You are carnal." You still are in denial of God's Word, and still refuse to explain it.