Carnal Disobedient Christianity vs. Biblical Obedient Christianity

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Oct 26, 2015.

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  1. Protestant

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    The debate rages on both sides.

    Dr. John R. Rice is clearly an advocate of carnal Christianity.

    Below I quote from Rice’s book, Dr. Rice, Here Are More Questions…Vol. II (1973, Sword of the Lord Publishers, P.98)

    Had Dr. Rice the Spirit of God he would have had 1 Cor. 12:3 brought immediately to mind:

    Therefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed.

    Let us now compare Rice’s carnal Christianity teaching with that of Jesus:

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.

    To follow Christ is to obey Christ.

    Christ’s teaching is abundantly clear: Christ’s sheep will obey Him.

    They will hear His voice and obey, whether by the Gospel unto salvation, or by rebuke unto repentance, turning from sin as a sheep gone astray.

    No matter. Jesus is clear.

    His Elect will be brought into the Kingdom under obedience to His voice.

    It is obedience to His voice that proves one’s love for Christ.

    If you love me you will keep my commandments. (ESV)

    Obedient Christians are the friends of Christ.

    Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

    The disobedient professing Christians are the enemies of Christ.

    Their continued disobedience proves hatred for Christ.

    Disobedient professing Christians have not the Spirit of God who sanctifies them.

    They are still in the flesh; their wills having not been made subject to the will of God.

    Rather than be called ‘overcomers,’ they are still overcome with sin.

    Only overcomers will enter New Jerusalem.

    Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name

    Biblical Christians are not perfect, but when confronted with sin they will repent and strive to cease such disobedience.

    For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Make no mistake.

    Carnal ‘Christianity’ is anti-Christianity.

    It is the Christianity of reprobates.

    [​IMG]


    Satan’s Seat: Headquarters of Reprobate ‘Christianity’
     
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  2. DHK

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    Had Protestant "the Spirit of God" plus some spiritual discernment and an ability to study this passage he would have never made the foolish comment he just made. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. I stopped here when you posted this verse, far out of its context making it mean something it doesn't. Shame on you.
     
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  3. Martin Marprelate

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    Before I was saved, I was (to my shame) very much given to bad language. When I was saved, despite my best efforts, this sin did not immediately disappear from my life. Rude words would pop into my mouth unbidden. I think the Lord left me with this problem for a while to humble me.

    My worst experience was when I was being interviewed for the part-time theology course I did. I had been a Christian for about two years. We were in conversation and out came this word! It wasn't one of the very bad ones, but it was enough to cover me in confusion and embarrassment. The chap who was interviewing me was not fazed and I was accepted for the course.

    What I would say about the chap in the O.P. is that if he is embarrassed and ashamed by his language, he should continue to pray for victory over it, and if my experience is anything to go by, he will eventually overcome the problem. However, if he's not troubled by his swearing, then that is a possible sign that he's not really saved. A true Christian longs to live a holy life that pleases God.
     
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  4. Protestant

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    The Necessity of Christian Obedience

    In my previous post I showed, using only the words of Jesus, that Christian obedience proves friendship with and love for Christ.

    Unlike the teaching of Dr. John R. Rice and a multitude of like-minded professing Christian leaders, (a few of whom are on this Board), making an initial act of faith – whether it be reciting a sinner’s prayer, participating in water baptism, joining a religious society/denomination – as proof of salvation, it does not constitute biblical proof the new initiate is regenerated and, therefore, eternally secure.

    Christ warns of MANY – not a few, but MANY – professing Christians on the Day of Judgment who recited a sinner’s prayer, who were baptized, who joined a religious society/denomination, who actively taught and preached, doing many wonderful works, and yet were no Christians.

    These are carnal Christians, not born of the Spirit.

    True, they were pleased with their perverted form of Christianity, as were their many followers.

    Yet, God will not be pleased.

    For they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:8)

    Unlike the thief on the cross who had no opportunity to display Christian obedience, the majority of newly professing Christians do.

    The average newly professing Christian has a lifetime to bring forth the fruit of repentance, as well as the fruit of the Spirit, including the good works for which he was created.

    Christian obedience is a lifetime proposition.

    For the regenerated Christian obedience is heavenly.

    But for the carnal Christian obedience is hell.

    Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Here the author of Hebrews inextricably connects eternal salvation with Christian obedience.

    Is it not tragic the many carnal Christians who have carnal security in their false carnal Christianity?

    [​IMG]

    The world always honors the carnal, while despising the spiritual.

    If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Preach repentance and obedience and you will be hated.
     
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  5. Protestant

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    Amen.
    Having read your recent postings I am certain you are not a proponent of carnal Christianity, unlike DHK.
     
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  6. kyredneck

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    I don't agree with DHK on several points, in fact I'm probably more in line with your beliefs, but you're out of line here with this smear of him. Some things he speaks of in his posts makes my heart jump with joy and I know that at our common foundation his heart is in the same place as mine.

    Also, as with another member on board, it seems you have 'Papists on the brain'.
     
  7. Rolfe

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    I may have missed it, but what is the connection between pictures of the Pope and the subject of the thread?
     
  8. DHK

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    Jesus used many words. If we take them out of context they become meaningless.
    Protestant you need to find God's will for your life. Here is some scripture from the gospels to help you.
    1. Judas went out and hung himself.
    2. Go and do thou likewise.
    3. What thou doest do quickly.

    Now isn't that excellent advice? It is taken straight from the Word of God, just like you quoted straight from the Word of God, and straight out of its context.

    What does this scripture have to do with John R. Rice, or "carnal Christians," as you define them, or disobedient Christians, as you define them? BTW, are you sinless. Be sure to read 1John 1:8,10.
    How many commands do you have to break in order be called "carnal" or "disobedient"? It seems to me you have put yourself under the law and taken yourself out of grace.

    This scripture:
    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    It has nothing to do with the teaching of John R. Rice, nothing to do with carnal Christians, disobedient Christians, nothing to do with trusting Christ as Saviour, etc.
    Read the context. Go back and read the entire chapter. He is speaking of unsaved false teachers.
    Your accusation is that I am unsaved, specifically an unsaved false teacher--something that is against the rules here. If that is how you are going to behave I invite you to leave BB.
    Let's see what the Bible says:
    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    It seems that the Bible testifies against your works-based salvation. Salvation is by faith alone. The Bible is quite clear on that. How many works did the thief on the cross have before the Lord accepted him? But you, the great arbiter of justice, would condemn this man--because it is you and not God that makes the decision whether or not a man should enter heaven. Isn't that amazing?
    1. The passage in Matthew 7 is speaking of false teachers.
    2. Biblical Christianity has always been in the minority.
    Do a proper exposition of Mat.7:21-23, and demonstrate, using context, that they are speaking of carnal Christians. Until that is done I consider you mistaken.
    I don't have the time to answer the rest of this post. Answer what I have given you first.
     
  9. DHK

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    You simply deny the scripture at this point.
    Many do, astonishingly. To make your paradigm work there must be a direct denial of 1Cor.3:1-5.

    1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
    1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    --He addresses them as brothers: saints in Christ, believers in the Lord.
    Then four times in four verses he calls the carnal brethren. At this point your position seems to be a simple denial of the Word. If there was any church that was full of carnal believers it was the Corinthian church, and Paul spends his time correcting and rebuking various carnal lifestyles that they had been practicing. Yes, they were carnal lifestyles, doing on a regular basis.
    1. Immorality. It wasn't a one time fling this man had. He was living continually in sin with "his father's wife,"..."such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles." It was a scandal; it was a lifestyle with him.
    BTW, Paul never condemns this man as unsaved but indicates that he is a brother in need of the church's care and discipline. An unsaved person would not be disciplined by the church, just not welcomed. The church is for the saved--for their edification.

    2. It was a lifestyle (not just occasional), that they would habitually take others to court and sue them. I am not from the U.S. Is this a lifestyle there too? :)
    MacDonald notes:
    It was a lifestyle.

    3. The abuse of the spiritual gifts, especially tongues, was not a one time event. It was continuous. It was their lifestyle, their mode of worship as it were.
    --And on it goes. These were carnal Christians with carnal lifestyles. Were they all unsaved. That is not what Paul says.
    God is not pleased with many things. He is not pleased with your attack on John R. Rice.
    Context:
    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    --As 1Cor.3:1-4 shows there are carnal Christians.
    This passage is directed toward believers and their carnality. The "carnal mind" of the believer are those believers who give into their sin nature and live "as if they were unsaved." They do not please God, for they are not being subject to the law of God. They cannot, as long as they remain in this state.

    The book of Hebrews says the same thing.
    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    --If you are not walking by faith, living by faith, praying by faith, etc. you are not pleasing God either, and you also fall into the same category as carnal. A carnal prayer is a prayer of unbelief, or a prayer said "for the congregation" instead of "TO God." You know what I mean. There is a lot of carnality among true Christians. "And they that are in the flesh (this sinful state) cannot please God."
    And you aren't there 24/7 to judge them. Neither are you their judge and arbiter. God is.
    No argument.
    But it does not demand perfection. John 1:8,10.
    Get your head out of the clouds. The Christian life was never promised to be easy. But it is rewarding.
    The reason a Christian who lives a carnal life is miserable is because he is being disobedient and God the Father is chastening his child. He wouldn't be miserable if he wasn't truly a child of God.
    Do you have any carnal ways you need to repent of?? Perhaps you do. 1John 1:9 was written for a purpose. You shouldn't be judging others of their salvation.

    A true statement.
    1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
    --John never would have written the above verses had not some believers fallen into worldliness, would he have? The verses would have been redundant.
     
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  10. Iconoclast

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    Protestant no where says he believes in a "works salvation"
    He understands the biblical salvation of grace....yet you falsely accuse him as is your M.O.

    Protestant...did I miss something? Have you ever suggested a works salvation...or is this another lie?
     
  11. DHK

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    When you accuse a person use the quote function. Until you do, or quote me word for word, I will consider your words as idle words.

    Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    So....where did Protestant say he believes in a works salvation.....show me how to use the quote function,by using his exact words in a quote. Or....do you confess this idea came from your mind and you project it towards him falsely.
    Just show one time.....just once that he did this!
     
  13. Protestant

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    The Effectual Call of God is unto Holiness, not Carnality

    For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

    When broken down into its foundational components, though holiness is a saving grace performed effectually in His Elect by our Lord, our Arminian and Pelagian friends must dispute this fundamental spiritual truth because it glorifies God’s irresistibly working His will in the lives of His children.....an eternal truth they detest.

    It is no small sin to willfully discount Psalm 110:3 which plainly states Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy [omnipotent] power.

    Willing to do what?

    Willing to do God’s will.

    And what is God’s will?

    As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

    15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy

    Those who are the called, the Elect of God, those will grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord which will always translate into holiness.

    For without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

    And Christ loses none given Him by the Father. They will all see the Lord.

    Thus, all those given Christ will be made holy by the effectual sanctifying power of the Spirit.

    The admonition to give diligence to make your calling and election sure is directed at all the carnal, yet professing Christians, who are deluding themselves.

    The Scriptures recognize the preponderance of carnal, spiritless professing Christians and gives countless examples of their characteristics, as well as the Lord’s judgment of them on the Last Day.

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Christ is warning the carnal Christian to re-examine the path he is on.

    Carnal Christianity leads to Hell. Many, not few, are on that path.

    Carnal Christianity preaches a false Christ and a false Gospel.

    Its preachers are the false prophets of whom Christ speaks in verse 15.

    True biblical Christianity preaches the true Christ, who is the straight gate leading directly to the Father.

    Entrance is made by faith alone in Christ alone.

    Yet that faith is not alone, for it is not a dead faith, but a living faith which works by love…….love of God, the brethren, and the lost.

    The narrow path is the way of holiness, not carnality.

    And few, not many, there be that find it.

    Preach the necessity of repentance and holiness and you will be hated.

    NEXT: Parables which speak to carnal professing Christians who are devoid of the Spirit of God.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

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    This does not look like you believe in a works based gospel at all.
    Why would someone suggest you say that ?
     
  15. DHK

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  16. Iconoclast

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    you said this....
    DHK
    So....where did Protestant say he believes in a works salvation.....show me how to use the quote function,by using his exact words in a quote. Or....do you confess this idea came from your mind and you project it towards him falsely.
    Just show one time.....just once that he did this!

    I notice you said this also;
    Show me where he said this also???
     
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  17. DHK

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    Every time you sin it is out of your carnal nature, your sin nature--right?
    Are you admitting to entire sanctification. Need I spell out for you 1John 1:8,10:

    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    --That is quite a heavy burden you bear--sinless perfection!!
    It makes 1John 1:9 totally irrelevant for the believer. Why on earth did John write it in the first place?

    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    --All sin comes from a carnal heart.

    Are you perfectly holy in your walk with God 100% of the time? Really?

    The key words here are "who has called us" He has called to this purpose with a holy calling.That doesn't mean we won't fail.
    When broken down to its foundational components you end up believing entire sanctification and your beliefs resemble those that are more closely related to Finney than Calvin.

    Much of the time God's people are willing. You discount progressive sanctification or spiritual growth, "backsliding," or the chastening of the hand of God on his disobedient child, etc. You are a perfectionist when it comes to the Christian walk. You appear to believe that the Christian must never sin, for all sin is out of the carnal nature. No sin is from the spiritual nature is it?
     
  18. DHK

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    I did not say; "Protestant [/b]believes in a works salvation[/b] did I?
    I said "it SEEMS that you believe in a works salvation. There is a big difference. The word means: to appear to believe, have the appearance, similitude, seem, etc. I didn't say that is what he believed.
    I just did.

    This is what he said concerning John R. Rice, and later about me. I believe the same as Rice does.

    John R. Rice does not have the Spirit of Christ; he is accursed.
    In his mind those that are "carnal" are not saved.
    That is his position. He is wrong.
     
  19. Iconoclast

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  20. DHK

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    Anyone who agrees with John R. Rice.
    Anyone who agrees with my position is unsaved.

    Here Protestant calls me a carnal Christian and unsaved.
    Yes, I had an initial act of faith and called upon the Lord.
    He is insecure in such a testimony and will deny my salvation.

    He misuses Mat.7:21ff, which speaks about false teachers and not carnal believers as he supposes.
    He is wrong.
    As I said in my reply to him, such vitriolic posting is not needed here.
    If you agree with such posting you are welcome to leave as well. Calling or inferring to your brothers and sisters in Christ as unregenerate will not be tolerated.
     
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