Cast your sins into the sea of Forgetfulness?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rev. Lowery, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery
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    I was preaching at Wednesday nights service, we just have a little house church, and I made a comment as to Rev. 20:12 and 13

    12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    To my understanding mankind saved or unsaved will be judged but at the end of the judgment God looks in the Book of Life and if our name is there we go to heaven if not we go to the Lake of Fire.

    In my sermon Wednesday night I made the comment that we will be judged for the sins we have commited and that we would be judged according to our works and if we are not in the Book of Life we go to the Lake of Fire.

    My mother stopped me and made the comment,
    "What does the Bible say about your sin when you ask God to forgive you."

    I said "God cast your sins into the sea of forgetfulness never to be brought up against you again."

    I dont know how many times I have heard that saying but I cant find it in any version of the Bible.

    If anyone has any info please let me know.

    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.
     
  2. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery
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    BTW I told my mother to not ever do that again if she has a problem with what I preach bring it to me in private. I ask her if she would have done that to another preach at another church she said no I said then dont do it here.


    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.
     
  3. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Rev Lowery,
    I ran it through my bible verse finder and came up with nothing on the sea of forgetfulness. :eek:

    But however found this........
    Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

    BTW, good for Mom Lowrey! [​IMG] She's keeping you on your toes! You will be better for it! BTW, when you spoke to her you did say that nicely, not all staunchly like you were better than her.... right?
     
  4. music4Him

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    BTW, my Mom would say that about the sea of forgetfulness also.
     
  5. music4Him

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    Another search produced this!

    Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

    Maybe this is where they get it from?
     
  6. James_Newman

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    It's time to cast your mother into the sea of the nursing home, just kidding.

    This is an area where it becomes necessary to divide between practical and positional, or however you would prefer to understand it. There is a sense in which, if we believe, our sins will not be remembered. At the great white throne, our sins will not be remembered against us but will have been pardoned, having been covered by the blood of Jesus, which is the blood of the new covenant. This, our final absolute positional justification and sanctification, would necessarily have to include all our sins, past-future, confessed or unconfessed, and I suppose you could make a nice analogy by saying that they will be cast into the sea of forgetfulness.

    Confession of our sins, and repentence from them, doesn't have any bearing on our eternal fate at the great white throne, but bears directly on our present standing with the Lord and also our future standing at the judgment seat of Christ. In this area, sins will have direct and indirect consequences in this present life, and at the judgment seat will affect our state for the next thousand years during the millennial kingdom. We find that sin will cause us to be chastened of the Lord, can keep our prayers from being answered, and will generally rob us of our joy and peace with God.

    So what happens when we confess these sins and ask God to forgive us? Do they disappear into the sea of forgetfulness? Not really. We will still have to reap the fruit of what we have sown (consequences of sin), perhaps even years later we may still find the evil seeds that we planted sprouting in our lives. We may find ourselves being chastened for the sins by God, even though we have confessed the sin and asked God to forgive us. Of course this all relates to this life, but what about the next?

    1 John 1:9
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    At the judgment seat of Christ (not the great white throne, mind) believers will be brought before their Lord to give account for their works. At this time, it will be too late to confess our sins and ask for forgiveness, so anyone reading this, if you have some things you need to get straight with God, now is the time to do it. Anyway, Paul tells us that our works will be made manifest and we will be judged for them.

    1 Corinthians 3:13-15
    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    We could well imagine what types of works would be burned. We should be putting every effort into living a holy life that would please our Lord, but we do realize that every man is going to stumble... So when we ask God to forgive us of those works, do they disappear into the sea of forgetfulness? Maybe.

    God is willing to forgive us of these sins, but there are some caveats. (Once again, this is not in regard to our final standing with God at the great white throne, which can only be secured by faith in Jesus Christ and His perfect work on the cross.)

    The first thing we must remember is that we must confess the sin and repent. You would think this was obvious, but some people miss this. Jesus is not going to wink at our sin at the judgment seat, we need to get it taken care of today. Confess it to the Lord, then stop doing it.

    Then, we need to remember to forgive others. Jesus will forgive us if we ask Him to, but He expects us to do the same.

    Matthew 18:32-35
    32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
    33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
    34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    So, does God cast our sins into the sea of forgetfulness? Yes, no and maybe.
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    God clearly tells us that sins confessed and forgiven He will remember no more.
    Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    Reference this truth with Micah 7:19 and it very accurate to say that God throws our sins in the sea of His forgetfulness.

    These sins are gone, never to be brought up by God again. We will not give account for these sins at the Judgment Seat of Christ; all of our sins were judged on the Cross of Calvary.
     
  8. music4Him

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    Thats all very well and good James_Newman, but where did the saying, "God cast your sins into the sea of forgetfulness never to be brought up against you again.", come from? It's not scripture.

    I looked at scripture and don't find it anywhere. Other than the 2 scriptures I found. There is still but one scripture with the word forgetfulness and it isn't talking about casting sin into the sea.
     
  9. music4Him

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    Ok that helps somewhat Pastor_Bob. [​IMG]

    Funny ain't it...you grow up with your parent/elderly influences.... quoting a saying and you think its scripture until you go to look it up.

    2Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
  10. James_Newman

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    Your right, it isn't scripture.
     
  11. James_Newman

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    None of that has anything to do with the judgment seat, nor confessing sin. All your sins may be nailed to the cross, but how do you get from that to there is no consequence for sin? How do you explain chastisement for sin in this life, if God doesn't remember our sin anymore?

    Hebrews 10:24-27
    24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
    25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
    26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    cer·tain
    1. Definite; fixed: set aside a certain sum each week.
    2. Sure to come or happen; inevitable: certain success.
    3. Established beyond doubt or question; indisputable: What is certain is that every effect must have a cause.
    4. Capable of being relied on; dependable: a quick and certain remedy.
    5. Having or showing confidence; assured.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    The GWTJ at the end of Rev 20 is at the end of the 1000 years which is after God has raptured all His saints to heaven to be with Christ (at the FIRST resurrection) for the 1000 years.

    He does not come back to "judge them" and figure out if He should take them to heaven. RATHER it is "already the case" (according to Rev 20:4-5) that ALL who are judged worthy to be raised in the first resurrection Are NOT subject to the second death.

    Those who participate in the first resurrection (all the saints of 1Thess 4 for example) have already been judged in that Dan 7:22 judgment seat of Christ where "Judgment is passed IN FAVOR of the saints".

    The remaining judgment of Rev 20 post-millennium is for casting the wicked INTO the lake of fire -- it is never said AT THAT judgment "Judgment is passed in favor of the righteous".

    The dead that are raised - are in fact the wicked of all ages. It is they who are judged at the end of Rev 20.

    The righteous dead were ALREADY raised in 1Thess 4 and also stated in Rev 20:4-5 as being "the FIRST resurrection" that is comprised of the "Holy and Blessed".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. BobRyan

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    There is ONE pre-advent judgment described in Rev 14:7-8 and in 2Cor 5:6-9 and in Romans 2:13-16 and in Dan 7:22. It is called the judgment seat of Christ which happens BEFORE the first resurrection - BEFORE the Rev 19 "Coming of the Lord". This singular pre-advent judgment is the main point of the first angels message in Rev 14.

    It is the one that determines who will participate in the "First Resurrection" - the resurrection we see in 1Thess 4 and Rev 20:4-5.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    While the phrase 'sea of forgetfullness' is not in the Bible, many take verses and bring the phrase into play.

    For instance, if we take

    Micah 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

    and bring it into

    Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    and

    Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    it is easy to come up with the phrase in question. But the above mentioned sea is not called a sea of forgetfulness.

    Also when we look at the two passages in Hebrews, we must realize that because God knows all, from past, to present, to future, He cannot forget our sins. He chooses not to remember them against the child of God; or to hold that child responsible who has asked forgiveness and repented.
     
  15. Pastor_Bob

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    Nowhere did I say that there is no consequence for sin. ALL sin comes with a consequence. There is a big difference in God punishing the Christian for his/her sin as opposed to God allowing the natural consequences of our wrong decisions (sin) to bear fruit in our lives. God's chastening is simply the allowance of those consequences. God says that He will not remember my sin; that's good enough for me.

    Sin will not be brought up at the Judgment Seat of Christ. We will give account of our works done in the body since the day we trusted Christ.
     
  16. James_Newman

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    What works did you think I was talking about?

    Galatians 5:19-21
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Christians sin, and Christians will be judged.

    1 Peter 4
    15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
     
  17. Pastor_Bob

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    This is talking about suffering persecution; it has nothing to do with God judging the Christian's sins.
     
  18. James_Newman

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    Your right, it is talking about suffering persecution. That isn't the point. If a believer can suffer for being a murderer, a thief, an evildoer or a busybody in other men's matters in this life, how do you figure Jesus is going to allow one of His servants to sin like the devil and not judge him for it at the judgment seat?

    Luke 12:45-48
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    1 Corinthians 11:31-32
    31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    How can you say there will be no chastening at the judgment seat, when the scripture plainly says otherwise?
     
  19. hillclimber

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    Pastor Bob has nailed it. Again.
     
  20. Pastor_Bob

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    2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    This verse carries with it the idea of receiving rewards. The receiving of these rewards are directly based upon the works that we do as a Christian. It has nothing to do with our sins.

    Our rewards will come from our labor or our work.
    1 Cor 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

    As laborers, we belong to God and work together with God.
    1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

    The foundation is the first and most important step in any building. The only foundation that we can build on the Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Paul warned us that it does make a difference how we build on our foundation or how we live our Christian life.
    1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

    Paul lists two kinds of building materials in verse 12. We can either build with gold, silver, and precious stones, or we can build with wood, hay, and stubble. The first group is purified by fire while the second group is consumed by fire.
    1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

    Paul is teaching here that everything we do for the Lord will be revealed for what it is actually made of. The day shall declare it. It will be revealed on Judgment Day.

    It will be revealed by "fire." This may very well be the all-knowing gaze of Jesus Christ Himself. When John described Jesus in the Book of Revelation, he said, "His eyes were as a flame of fire."

    This "fire" is going to "try every man’s work." Everything that you and I did, or said we did for Christ will be tested by this fire. The fire will reveal "of what sort it is." This is referring to what materials were used in the building, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or stubble.

    Our rewards come from building with the kind of materials that can "abide" or last through the fire. Of course that would be the gold, silver, and precious stones.

    Many Christians will suffer the loss of the rewards that they could have had earned if they would have used the right building materials.
    1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    This is not referring to the loss of rewards already earned.
    Mt 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
    42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

    The loss of rewards are a result of labor not for God, but for yourself. This is labor not for eternal things, but labor for temporal things. (Money, fame, pleasure)

    So, the Judgment Seat of Christ is clearly about our works and not our sins. No Scripture, kept in context, teaches otherwise.
     

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