Castaway: Picking the scab of Christian accountability

HP: I.e., is our ‘spiritual life.’

 

HP spiritual life is not something that can be lost as some would have us to believe. What James is speaking of and what the Bible speaks of is your soulical life. It is your wants and desires, etc. You will lose your rebellion and learn to be obedient.

 

HP: Where did you find the hat you picked that rabbit out of? Surprising what one might find picking around under a scab.


So the soul life consists of the desires, wants, and whatever ‘etc.’ means to you. Would you mind expounding on the ‘etc’ so we can get a real picture of just what it is that you call the 'soul life.' Thanks.

 

Huh?

The saving of the soul has been talked about quite frequently around here and the difference between the spirit and the soul has been talked about as well, and you were party to those conversations, so I will not rehash it.

If someone is reading the threads and wants more information they are more than welcome to PM me or email me and I would happy to visit with them.

 

HP: What is so difficult about telling us openly on the list? Just tell us what the ‘etc’ means to you in your own words. You do not have to go into great detail, just tell us what the soul life consists of.

 

Again that's already been explained. Just go back and re-read some of the threads that have already discussed the matter.

 

HP: That was and is still the problem. You never once gave us a clear definition of either the soul or the spirit. In your most recent post, stating that the soul consisted of “desires and wants” was a great start in explaining what you see as a distinction between the soul and the spirit. Now if you can just tell us concerning the ‘etc’ we might for the first time get a more complete idea as to this distinction you see.

When you were pressed for proof of this distinction, you simply referred to verses that mention both the soul and the spirit, begging the question as to what the distinction actually consists of in cognizant terms.

Here is your opportunity to shine, and settle this once for all. Explain to us what this distinction consists of, including the function of the spirit as distinct from the functions of the soul.

 

HP I'm not sure there is anything magical in he "etc." that you seem to think there is. The Bible makes it clear in both the OT and NT that the spirit and soul are separate and distinct.

The spirit is the energizer. The thing that makes us go. The body is the vehicle that the spirit makes go. The soul is a passive responder. It can't do anything. It can rejoice when it sees something pleasurable coming down the pike or it can scream in terror when it sees something painful coming down the pike, but it can't do anything about it.

The soul again is the person's wants and desires in life it is the agenda setter.

As James has explained if we do not die to our soulical desires then we are going to lose our soul in the coming age according to Scripture. However if we die to our soulical desires now and allow the Holy Spirit to direct our desires and agenda then we will save our soul or have life in the coming age.

If you want more detail as to the body, soul and spirit distinction then I would encourage you to listen to the series of messages here: http://www.1-heart.org/developing_perspective.htm.

 

HP: You depict quite a circular scenario. The Spirit energizes the body that makes the spirit go. That sounds like the ultimate perpetual motion machine. The thing that makes us go is the vehicle that makes the spirit go. Are you certain of this? What supportive evidence might be found for this idea?

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HP: The soul being passive cannot do anything, but you say it can respond to anticipated stimuli. How does this passive soul anticipate? To anticipate one has exercise reason and make a choice in response to the stimuli it senses is going to affect it.

HP: It only gets deeper. Now JJ has this passive soul ‘that cannot do anything’ being the ‘agenda setter.’ JJ states that ‘the soul is the persons wants and desires.’ Let’s examine that thought by following the logic.

JJ says a persons soul is a persons wants or desires.
I want a glass of water.
Therefore my soul is a glass of water.

And: The soul cannot do anything.
The soul sets the agenda.
The agenda of necessity is nothing.

Something doesn’t seem right here to me JJ.

 

And that's exactly why I didn't want to get into it with you again, because you have no desire to understand it, you just want to nitpick it. If you don't want to understand it that's fine, but why pretend like you do?

And that is probably a true statement HP, but I can't make you understand it. That's not my job thank goodness!

 

HP: Nothing could be further from the truth. I am trying to understand how in the world you separate the soul from the spirit with reasonable logic and questions taken from your own words. What you have presented so far is simply not reasonable JJ.

 

Not reasonable in your mind maybe, but there are a number of folks that understand exactly what I am talking about. And you don't need my words to understand that the soul and the spirit are separate. Just go to Hebrews 4:12 and that should be enough.

For most folks unfortunately Scripture is not enough, so I'm not sure what else they are looking for. Scripture's enough for me. It says they are separate and I believe it. I won't pretend that I understand all of the intricate details of what that means, but I do know what the Holy Spirit wants me to know at this time.

 

Also, the words of God the father and God the son each say (in their own words, remember) that they each have a body, soul, and spirit. Remember that when Jesus was crucified, his body went into the grave, his spirit went to be with the father, and his soul went to hell. If you see the works invovled in salvation, it's talking about the salvation of the soul. That's what the book of James is talking about: The salvation of the soul. "Faith without works is dead." Well, we're saved by believing in the Lord Jesus, but we're commanded to walk by faith. We can save our soul now and lose it then.

Hebrews 4:12: For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

HP: I fail to remember that verse. Do you have a reference by chance?

 

HP: The problem is that the ideas you set forth, in the realm you claimed to have knowledge, could not withstand the least bit of direct questioning. Are you now saying that you are not sure of what you originally said, or are you standing by your current statement concerning what you do understand is granted to you by the Holy Spirit?

 

What in the world are you talking about? Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't stand up to direct questioning. I've answered all your questions before. And if not me there have been others.

I don't see going further with you when you have no desire to understand. You are set in your position and that is between you and God. My job is not to make you understand, but to represent the Truth as it is taught to me through the Holy Spirit. Whether or not the Light switch is flipped on for you is between you and God, not you and me.

Where did you get that? I absolutely stand by the body, soul and spirit each being separate. I absolutely stand by Hebrews 4:12 in that the Word of God separates the soul and spirit just like the light and darkness was separated in the beginning.

What I don't understand is what you are digging for? I don't know how much more can be shared with you.

 

HP The truth JJ. It is a given that you believe that the body and spirit are separate entities. I understand that. The question I have been trying to get you to focus on is what does this 'supposed distinction' consist of? You have offered a brief explanation, but when I question it you do nothing but go back and hide under the notion that there is a separation. You start to tell me of the nature of the soul, then you tell me that you do not understand it fully, but rather only understand what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you concerning it. When I question you as to whether or not the Holy Spirit has revealed to you the thoughts you presented as to what the soul consists of, you once again go hide behind the notion that the separation exists, without addressing the simple question I asked you, which again was, did the Holy Spirit reveal to you the notions you expressed on the list as to what the soul consists of?

If you do not desire to discuss your stated opinions and desire to avoid any reasonable inquiries into your beliefs, why continually share them on a discussion board?

 

There is no verse saying that.

But in Acts 2 it does mention Hades for Christ and David.

Peter does talk about the Spirit of Christ in 1Pet 1 prophetically speaking through the OT prophets and in 1Pet 3 was see that same Spirit specifically witnessing to the people living before the flood - WHILE the ark WAS BEING built.

Some people try to spin that around to get a strange result.

In Christ,

Bob

 

HP the Holy Spirit is our only teacher. So the obvious answer to your question is yes I believe the Holy Spirit to have led me into every belief of Truth that I hold to.

Now as more study is done day by day, month by month, year by year one finds out that some things that one believes are not true and in fact it was the Holy Spirit at all.

So at this moment I believe what I have stated to be the Truth. It is backed up by Scripture in both the OT and NT. No one has been able to refute it so I continue to believe it to be Truth which means it has been taught to me by the Holy Spirit.

Again I think this type of response should be obvious, so again I'm not sure the purpose of your question, but that should answer it so there are no more false accusations of hiding.