Catholic Verses Baptist

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by DavidsAngel, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. DavidsAngel

    DavidsAngel
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Alright before everyone become inflamed i'm going to epxlain exactly what i'm talking about and I want to see if you agree or disagree.

    I think that the Catholic faith is highly ceremonius. Meaning that they have to have structure and know what's coming before it gets there.

    I think that Baptist tend to rely more on the Holy Spirit for thier views. I think that they allow the Holy Spirit to move them without relying on structure.

    What do you think ?
     
  2. JesusInFirstPlace

    JesusInFirstPlace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with you.

    I went to a catholic church once. At the door I was given a program, so to speak. There were certain things that were said by the priest, and the congregation, at specific times.

    I have been in several baptist services where the Holy Spirit led in some spontaneous other directions for the service- for example, once during a testimonies time the testimonies and praises to God continued well into the service. Then once the preacher got into the pulpit and said that his sermon would be shorter this particular day- so he asked if before he began if there were any questions anyone wanted to ask him. One question led to several more on the same topic, and a spontaneous Spirit-led discussion on the topic.

    That's just what I think- but I'm not Catholic, so I don't know if what I experienced my one time was always the case or not...

    Becca
     
  3. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was catholic for my first 21 years so I have some insight at least. Orthodox catholicism, by the catechism, is quite rigorous and works-based. Saying proscribed prayers to Mary and the saints are felt to allow them to intercede on our behalf before God. Not all catholics believe this and many are quite liberal in fact. You will find many "ecumenical" catholics who believe all good people are destined for heaven. And tahnkfully you will find a few catholics who actually realize that our salvation is possible only because of the Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    I was attracted to the baptist denomination because of the emphasis placed on scripture and church self-administration.

    No denomination is perfect, and I certainly find baptists to be closer to the NT ideal. There are a few things that I do appreciate about modern catholic theology.

    The one major flaw I find in some baptist churches is the overemphasis on literal interpretation of the scripture, sometimes swallowing camels and choking at gnats. ;)

    When I was little I used to love the incense at catholic services. And I really liked the bishop's hat (miter) and stick (crozier). When a bishop presides over service he wears the "post-hole digger hat" and carries a shepherd's crook. Pretty cool ;) , but not particularly biblical. :(
     
  4. DavidsAngel

    DavidsAngel
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I was raized Catholic like you which is where I got my view. And, the Catholic's that I know are those precious few that are saved. Yes they do put a lot of emphaisis on works and less on pure scripture. To be hoenst I didn't know what a Bible was till I went to a Baptist Middle School. I was in a Catholic school till then. I went to mass. I knew the general Idea. But it wasn't till I went to a Baptist school that I decided I didn't know where to begin with a Bible.

    I like the Baptist approach because it's more laid back in my opinion. No kneeling unless you feel it necessary. And so on. Is why I said they are more Ceremonies less Grab and preach.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    I went 12 years in catholic schools, nuns and all!!

    My education was, retrospectively, quite biblically sound; salvation based on Christ and not rituals! Although the doctrine of salvation was not as well layed out as we would find in baptist education. Our pastor, Cesidio Federico, was a moderate fellow and a wonderful speaker! Unfortunately in high school and college I fell prey to intellectualism - I hung around with the wrong crowd and quit going to church. When I realized my true need for God I found protestantism a little more in keeping with the biblical teachings.

    I still regard catholicism as a Christian denomination - but sadly a pretty mixed up one! My whole family is still catholic - and of all of them (and there are lots!) I feel that only my mother, one brother, and grandmother are Christians. Sad. :(

    I really cannot stomach the Mariolatry/papal infallibility of strict catholicism. :eek:
     
  6. DavidsAngel

    DavidsAngel
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I stopped oging to Mass and Church from confusion about Baptist and Catholic and the fact that the priest (who was a very good man) died. I felt lost for some time after that until I found my Baptist calling.

    Most of my family is Christian saved by grace not works evne if they call themselves, Cathlic, Church of God ect. I know this because we have had some debates :eek: in the past

    And I can't either. I had a problem with Confession. I can't see sharing my sins with another flawed person for forgiveness a good thing. Although .... The last time I went to confession, I had not been in a VERY long time and the Priest I spoke to told me not to worry to quit being so hard on myself and that Jesus forgives. [​IMG] ... so It's not all bad!
     
  7. mioque

    mioque
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    2 observations.

    -The Eastern-Orthodox&Oriental-Orthodox churches are even more rigidly ceremonial (make that liturgical) than the RCC.
    - Spontaneous Spiritledmoments sadly don't show up in every churchservice and that is the reason why those eloborate liturgies developed in the first place.

    "When I was little I used to love the incense at catholic services. And I really liked the bishop's hat (miter) and stick (crozier). When a bishop presides over service he wears the "post-hole digger hat" and carries a shepherd's crook. Pretty cool , but not particularly biblical."
    ""
    I don't know about that: fishhat, shepherd's crook and incense all can be linked (if somewhat vaguely) to the Bible and early Christianity.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    That is true. The RCC places a lot of emphasis on "magic ceremony" and "the powers of the priest". Their own historians point out that this created a rift between the "sacred clergy" and the "profane laity" over time because the clergy "had powers" and could even SAVE a lost soul without that soul ever hearing one word of the Gospel (they cite infant baptism for proof).

    Baptists and other Christian groups reject that "magic sacrament" model of worship and the Gospel.

    However if you "buy into that RCC form" you can easily see how they keep rolling that snowball down the hill so that they start to believe "the more liturgy the better".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Here is an interesting post I saw on Catholic Church Apologetics

    I think the Weslyan, Methodist and church of the bretheren all started in the 1700's.

    If they had included my church they would have said that it started in the 1860's.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Janosik

    Janosik
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    BobRyan,

    what 'magic sacraments' you have in mind?
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob Ryan,

    Were you speaking about the 'magic' when the little bell rings at the consecration, where the bread and wine, allegedly becomes the real Body and blood of Jesus?
     
  12. Eric B

    Eric B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,806
    Likes Received:
    2
    Baptists are generally middle of the spectrum. It's the Pentecostal/charismatic churches that are usually totally dependant on the Spirit for the oder of service. The more conservative Baptists can be a microcosm of the "high" churches they criticize; always following a prescribed order (usually printed on the weekly bulletin), though not as ornate or elaborate as those other churches. And then the rules on styles of music and worship.

    Then I guess some more modern ones are almost like the charismatics, and of course, there are pentecostal baptists as well.
     
  13. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's important to remember that Baptists, like the RCC and the rest of us, indeed do have plenteous structures and ceremonies within their doctrine and worship. I would additionally respectfully submit that there are points of doctrine that baptists hold to as stringently as any ever upheld by the RCC (full immersion, ordinalism vs sacramentalism, etc.).
     
  14. Janosik

    Janosik
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
  15. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Janosik,

    There is a Slovikian R.C. Church in Bethlehem, PA. I thought you might be of this nationality.

    You pointed out I Corinthians 11 as referring to Holy Communion. We always believe that your priests should give not only the bread but the wine in keeping with N.T. teaching.
     
  16. Janosik

    Janosik
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ray,

    I am not from PA.

    RC in UK includes wine in Communion. It's not the case in many other countries. I believe the reason could be not to transfer diseases when you drink from the same cup. RC in Toronto took out handshaking from the masses during the SARS period last year. It appears RC is pragmatic in these kind of issues.
     
  17. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Janosik,

    I knew you were not from the states because at the bottom of your post it says you are from
    Slovakia.

    Many Lutheran Churches have Communion on the first Sunday of the month.

    When we receive Communion, as you know, we have to enter in on this service with a pure heart. God judges Christians for their sins if they eat and drink unworthily. The reason He does this is so that ' . . . we will not be condemned along with the rest of the sinners who are unsaved.' (I Corinthians 11:32) At times the Lord afflicts Christians with 'sickness' and in extreme situations with 'physical death,' {I Corinthians 11:30} because of their carelessness. This is a true teaching from Almighty God through His servant the Apostle Paul. The Lord uses other Providential means to return His people to fellowship with Himself and His church in this world.

    Regards,
    Berrian, Th.D.
     
  18. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    36
    Here is the difference between the two:

    Baptists (and others): Faith = Salvation + Good Works.

    Catholics (and others): Faith + Good Works = Salvation

    Small change in the equation. Big difference. All other differences pale in comparison.
     
  19. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the source of faith as far as the Baptist are concerned?
     
  20. Janosik

    Janosik
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Friend of Spurgeon,

    as far as I know it goes like this:

    Baptists: Salvation = By grace through faith
    Catholics: Salvation = By grace through faith

    Both agree that good works are fruits of the faith.
     

Share This Page

Loading...