Catholics and Muslims Worship Together

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by John Gilmore, Aug 13, 2003.

  1. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    Were Roman Catholics and Muslims worshipping the same God? If so, was it the Trinity or the imaginary god of Islam? Did the Priest tell the Muslims they were doomed?

     
  2. Johnv

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    Where is the hooplah when Christians and Jews pray together? Last time I checked, the Jews reject the Trinity as well, and as such, their God is also imaginary. :rolleyes:

    I've attended several interfaith services with Christians (including many Baptists) and Jews.
     
  3. Ray Berrian

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    Muslims do not worship the God of the Bible. Some parishes will do anything to get in the headlines of the newspaper. It was a real slap in the face to, what was it, 3,000 souls and remaining family members, who burned or jumped from the Twin Towers. At least Jewish worshippers worship the one true God, the Lord God Jehovah of the former covenant. I do, however, believe that they must step up to the plate and receive Christ as personal Savior and Messiah in order to be saved.

    God forbid that Pope John Paul passes, but when he does Catholics will probably have seated in the papal chair, a more liberal one who will not hold to the basic Christian theology. He possibly will be the False Prophet of Revelation, who will point to the Beast/Antichrist as being supreme in all of the world, as a leader of men.
     
  4. Johnv

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    Funny how we on this board how we can berate Jews for denying the Trinity, and also say they worship the same God that we do, depending on whether it suits us or not. How hypocritical.


    Muslims, Christians, and Jews died on the WTC. The WTC attack is a slap in the face to all Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Interfaith services assist these three religious communities to heal from from the wounds caused by 9-11.



    There's certainly no disagreement there. Bishop Gregory Aymond is quoted in the article as ssaying "These kinds of opportunities to come together foster that dream of Jesus becoming a reality". It also says that the two faiths will feed the homeless together. That is certainly Jesus in action, as exemplified in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
     
  5. john6:63

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    The reason there is no hoopla when Christians and Jews pray together is b/c we pray to the same Jehovah God.

    Some Jews hold that Jesus was a great Rabbi that the gentile nations mistook for being the Messiah. Some even believe that Jesus was the gentile Messiah and not the Jewish one. The Jews at the time of Jesus was looking for a Messiah who would deliver them from the grips of the Roman Empire.

    Allah the false god of Islam, is actually the “moon god.” Look at any masque and at the top you will see what? Yep, a crescent shaped moon. Before the birth of Islam, people in that region of Saudi Arabia worshipped up to 360 pagan gods, including the moon god allah. Muhammad tried pushing his religion on the people early, but didn’t work, he relocated to the northern region and started robbing the trade route until he was rich enough and had enough following or army. He forced the religion of Islam on the people by a sword over a three-year period. He sprinkled some of the Torah into the religion to convert the Jews, remember the Hebrews had a history of following the religions of their neighboring countries. But it didn’t take hold as Muhammad had hoped; this is why you hear such vehement talk against the Jews and anyone who doesn’t submit to allah. In addition when a Muslim prays he prays with his back to Israel. All this can be found in the “History of civilization” book.

    You can buy the Qur’an, Sunnah and the Hadiths at any book store cheap and read for yourself and decide if the God of Christianity and the god of islam are the same.

    An interesting side note: Islam was knocking on the backdoor of Europe, until the Knights of Malta who in 1522, too 700 knights and 1500 militiamen and fought off 200,000 Turks on the Island of Rhodes and kept Christianity from being swept out of Europe by islam.
     
  6. Johnv

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    If we use the same litmus test we do for Muslims, your assertion is incorrect, concluding that, since Jews deny Jesus' divinity, as well as the Trinity, they don't worship the God of the Bible.

    I find it interesting, however, that you use the word "Jehovah", which is not found in the bible. (it's a mis-translation derived from mistakenly combining the Yahweh and Elohim, and should not, imo, used by Christians)


    That has been debated and refuted many times. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". It was the word used by Arabic Jews, Christians, and non-judaic monotheists long before Islam. It is not a word that was invented by Mohammed.
     
  7. John Gilmore

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    Muslims, Jews, and so-called Christians who do not worship the Triune God are idol worshippers. The Lord has commanded us to come out from among them, not to worship with them. However, the Roman Catholic Church is not alone in its sin. My own synod has exonerated a Pastor who prayed with pagans at Yankee Stadium after 9-11.
     
  8. john6:63

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    Then who might that God be, that the Hebrews worshipped in the OT? Who did Jesus pray to in the OT? Did Jesus pray to himself? You show how steep your knowledge of Judaism is.
     
  9. Johnv

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    The God of the OT was before and understanding of the Trinity. BTW - it was the same God who sent Ishmael out to be the forebearer of a nation.


    Jesus is not mentioned in the OT. Jesus is recorded in the NT as praying to the Father.


    Jesus prayed to the Father.

    Using your criterion regarding Muslims, "Praying to" does not equate to recognizing the Trinity or the Messiah. But to answer your comment, I believe that Jews faithfuly seek to worship the Almighty God as they understand him, even though that understanding lacks Christ. I believe that Muslims, too, faithfully seek to worship the Amighty God as they understand him, even though that understanding lacks Christ. While we're at it, I believe that Mormons and Jehovahs witnesses, too, seek to faithfully worship the Amnighty God, even though their understanding of him is contrary to how we understand him. Learing from Paul's dissertation on the Unknown God of the Athenians, it is important to note that, while others lack an understanding of God and Christ as we know him, it does not mean that they are seeking a false god. They are simply seeking Almighty God in ignorance.
     
  10. Johnv

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    I don't think that praying with non-Christians is a sin, so long as your prayers are directed to Almghty God, and so long as you in prayer do not endorse any other than Almighty God. I've been to temple with Jewish friends before, and during prayer, my prayers are still directed to God the Triune and Almighty as I understand him.

    It would be difficult for the rest of us to determine sinned or not without knowing the details of his participation and his heart.
     
  11. yod

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    I am involved in inter-faith gatherings between jews and christians and I'm not sure how I feel about it sometimes.

    There are some very good things about it.

    It can only help us to build bridges for understanding in regard to the jews. Most of you probably know christian history with the jewish people has been one of persecution and humiliation throughout the centuries. Why would they trust us at all?

    Only because they have no other choice...or we have shown that we can be trusted.

    I'm also sure that they would feel just as opposed to praying in the name of Jesus as I would be praying to Allah, so we have to be careful at these events not to do it in such a way that it "forces" them to condone it. This is where I have to be wise enough to let the Holy Spirit speak.

    Jesus will always be the Rock of offense so I'm not ashamed of offending people with His name but I try not to be offensive in every other way...prefering others over myself.


    Muslims? That's another story. It really depends on the group in front of you at the time. Go too far and your life could be in serious danger.

    But jews????

    How many street gangs of accountants have you seen? Do terrorists ever wear yarmulkes? [​IMG]
     
  12. Johnv

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    Hey now, generalizing all jews as accountants is leans towards bigotry. Let's not go there, please. ;)
     
  13. yod

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    I heard that joke from a jewish girl.

    I don't think she was being anti-semetic.
     
  14. Carson Weber

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    Cool! I personally know Bishop Aymond from when I was a parishioner in his diocese, and I was graced with the opportunity to see him again this past March when he flew up to Columbus, Ohio to ordain one of my friends as a transitional deacon (meaning that he'll be ordained as a presbyter/priest in one more year after he serves a year as a deacon).

    Here's a picture of my friend Ken, Bishop Gregory Aymond, and me from about 4 years back after a Pro-Life Mass in a Hispanic Catholic Church in downtown Austin:

    http://carson.boerne.com/profile/bishop2.jpg
     
  15. Lorelei

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    The Bible says:

    The Pope says:

     
  16. Ray Berrian

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    Is it becoming, spiritually speaking, for a Christian bishop to have communion/fellowship with those who sit in darkness. ' . . . for what communion hath light with darkness . . . . and ' . . . what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?' This is not my question but is one that God presents to the church of Corinth via the voice of the Apostle Paul.

    If you were a member of a family who lost a lived one by fire or the 'leap of death' you would probably not be interested in ecumenical unions with pagans.

    It is interesting to me that a Catholic clergy was willing to be a human chameleon. Isn't the church building meant to be used by sinners/pagans mainly so they can hear the Gospel and find Christ as Savior? I doubt that it should be used to say, 'Let's all hold hands together now and forgive the soulless people who did this to, for the most part, Judeo-Christian people who were merely earning a living for their families.

    I wonder how much salvation message was in the homily that morning? Did the pagans receive the sacrament along with the Christians at this mass? Apparently, there is nothing in the catechism about fraternizing with double dyed sinners. God's admonition is separation. 'Wherefore, come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord . . . ' [II Corinthians 6:17]
     
  17. trying2understand

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    The article says that they recited verses from Scripture and prayed. Why do you say that they did not hear the Gospel?
    Interesting that you find fault with forgiveness.

    Interesting that you think that some people do not have souls. Can you point to the relevant Scripture that teaches you this belief?


    Subtle false witness, but false witness none the less.

    Where does this article say that they celebrated the Mass?

    It appears that your church teaches that it is ok to say anything that comes to mind, regardless of the truth, as long as it serves to make Catholics look bad.
     
  18. Johnv

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    Forgetting about the Muslims who died on 9-11? The WTC was not a Muslim attack on Christians. It was an Al-Quaeda attack on the United States. American Christians, American Muslims, American Jews, American Buddhists, and others were all attacked that day. It's sinful for a Christian to blame a Muslim for 9-11 because of his religious affiliation. That would be like a black man blaming a white man for slavery because of the color of the white man's skin.
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    . . . the soulless people . . .

    This was only hyperbole my friend.

    I think the only people who can forgive 9-11 are the families who lost loved ones at Ground Zero. The departed spirit/souls have no opportunity, now, to forgive these characters.
     
  20. Ray Berrian

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    My statement was, 'I wonder how much salvation message was in the homily that morning?'

    Reading a Gospel lesson might not guide a person as to how to be saved and made fit for Heaven. Priests and ministers who know and love the Lord minister around this most serious concept and Divine reality. My guess is that no one explained John 3:16 or Acts 16:31 in that ecumenical service of the church.

    My question was, 'Did the pagans receive the sacrament along with the Christians at this mass?'

    Notice, it was a question and I did not say that the Muslims were offered the sacred sacrament of the body and blood of our Lord.
     

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