Catholics and the gift of Tongues

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Briguy, May 29, 2003.

  1. Briguy

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    Hi all, On a different thread a couple weeks back I asked what the Catholic view of the "Gift of Tongues" was. There was no response but the thread was over 20 pages long and I think not many were looking at it anymore. So I ask again, what is the "official" Catholic taeching on the "Gift of Tongues" (and interpretations too).
    I guess I am also curious what the Catholics believe about the "spiritual gifts" in general.

    Thanks in advance for helping me with these questions [​IMG]

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  2. Glen Seeker

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    I don't believe that there is any "official" position one way or the other.

    I've been to Charismatic healing services at a Catholic church where almost everyone spoke in tongues. Kinda spooked me the first time.

    As far as I'm concerned, if our first Pope did it, can I say it's wrong? ;)
     
  3. GraceSaves

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    Brian,

    I plead ignorance on this topic as well. I have never experienced anything like it at Mass, and have only met one or two (in person) who have been to any sort of Catholic charasmatic service, but I'm not even sure if that one had people speaking in tongues.

    Certainly, it is in no way a required thing. Other than that, I don't believe that it is wrong in and of itself. I should probably do some reading on it though; ignorance helps no one!

    God bless you this sunny morning (at least in Mississippi!),

    Grant

    P.S. I just remembered that in the Sacrament of Confirmation, we receive the "gifts of the Holy Spirit." Since I'm in a hurry to get to my next class, here's a quick cut and paste on what I'm referring to:

    At Confirmation, we learn the implications of our new life in the Holy Spirit:

    All powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    by water and the Holy Spirit
    you freed your sons and daughters from sin
    And gave them new life.
    Send your Holy Spirit upon them
    to be their helper and guide.
    Give them the spirit of wisdom and [2] understanding,
    the spirit of [3] right judgment and [4] courage,
    the spirit of [5] knowledge and [6] reverence.
    Fill them with the spirit of [7] wonder and awe in your presence.

    (Rite of Confirmation)

    This prayer names the traditional "Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit." The biblical origin of these seven gifts is found in Isaiah (11:1-3) where he is foretelling the qualities of the Messiah.

    But a shoot shall sprout from the stump of Jesse, and from his roots a bud shall blossom. The spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him: a spirit of wisdom and of understanding, a spirit of counsel and of strength, a spirit of knowledge and of fear of the Lord, and his delight shall be the fear of the Lord.

    [The ancient Greek and Latin translations of this passage read "piety" for "fear of the Lord" in line six; this gives us our traditional seven gifts.]


    http://www.americancatholic.org/UpdateYourFaith/answers.asp?QP0898

    Hope that answers something for ya!
     
  4. trying2understand

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    Hi Brian,

    Not to be a smart guy, but could you cite the verse that talks about a "gift of tongues"?

    I am familiar with verses which say "gift of healing" but none that refer to speaking in tongues as a "gift".

    Ron
     
  5. thessalonian

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    Hi Brian,

    There is a pamphlet put out by the American Catholic Bishops on "baptism in the Holy Spirit" that I have. I will look at it later but in general it recognizes baptism in the HS and tongues, while not requiring it as the Holy Spirit moves where it wil.

    [ May 29, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]
     
  6. Ps104_33

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    The reason why there is no mention of the phrase "gift of tongues" in the Bible is simple. There is none. Isnt that profound? In the book of Acts I believe that God gave the Apostles a temporary supernatural ability to speak other languages in order to propagate the Gospel. It had a time and a pupose. The reason it is abused today is because it is the only "gift" (and I hate to use that word because you are right it is never used in conjuction with tongues) that can be counterfeited without proof of such.
    How can you prove whether someone is actually speaking in a supernatural tongue or not?
    If someone claims to have the gift of teaching, for example, it wouldnt take long to find out that they didnt.
    AS far as the Catholic Church is concerned "tongue-speaking" at a mass is something the Catholic church has been using to bring some sort of revival among their fold which has been drying up in recent years. They have been emulating charismatic church services in order to "liven up" the congregation. Ask Carson, he'll tell ya. He is a more "new school" charismatic type of Catholic.
     
  7. DHK

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    I am not absolutely sure, but doesn't Carson attend a Charismatic Catholic Church?
     
  8. trying2understand

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  9. GraceSaves

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    Yes, because you know all the inner workings of the Church. Thanks for sharing your secret knowledge with us on the "plans" of the Church. Oh, how I would love to know your source for this information!

    Oh, that's right. I don't have access to your mind (which fabricated the above).

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  10. CatholicConvert

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    Isa 33:19 Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.


    De 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;


    The tongues of the New Testament are to be understood by the prophecies of the Old Testament. God warns the Jewish nation that when they break His covenant with Him, the sign of the impending judgement shall be the hearing of tongues which are not understood.

    Furthermore, look at Deut. 28 again:



    a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;


    Rome certainly was a nation "from afar" a nation whose tongue the average Israelite did not understand, and a nation WHICH FLEW THE EAGLE UPON ITS ENSIGNS.

    Imagine then what the Jews who remembered these warning thought of when they saw those Roman ensigns all around them!!! Surely there must have been much talk of the impending judgement

    Tongues was the sign of the impending end of the Old Covenant. Once the destruction of Jerusalem took place in AD 70 and the covenant was officially ended with the destruction of the Temple, there was no further need and we see the phenomena dying off.

    I see no need for it today, and given the nature of the wretched excesses of the so called "Toronto Blessing" and the "Pensecola Revivals", I stand EXTREMELY LEERY of any of it at all.

    That is not the OFFICIAL CATHOLIC POSITION on it, just my .02 worth.

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed

     
  11. Ben W

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    The Catholic Charasmatic Movement began in the US in the 1960's.

    We have two Catholic churches in my city where they have the Catholic Charasmatic meetings. People do speak in tounges, and the priest prays for people and they fall over just like in the Pentecostal movement.

    As far as I am aware they are as much a part of the Catholic church as any other Catholic church that has a regular mass. The meetings do seem to be well attended here.
     
  12. Briguy

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    Hi All, Thanks for the posts. Hey ed you are right about the judgement issue and the fading out of the gift of Tongues after 70AD. It is nice to agree with you [​IMG] for a change ;) [​IMG]

    Ron, you asked for scripture that uses gift with tongues. Here is the obvious passages from
    1 Cor.

    CO1 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    CO1 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

    CO1 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

    CO1 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.


    As a side note I believe verse 31 is better rendered "you are coveting the best (showy) gifts but I will show you a better way, which then he talks about love.


    Ed, so you believe that any Catholic church that practices speaking in tongues is in error, right? I find it interesting that there are these charasmatic Catholic churches poping up that have a different interpretations on the scripture that addresses the gift of tongues. Ron, I will now check out your link/s

    Thanks for the replies.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  13. atestring

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    Briguy,
    I have noticed for almost 2 years that you have a fascination about speaking in tongues.
    Is there a reasopn that you are so fascinated ?
     
  14. Ben W

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    Tounges is an extremley interesting subject.Many are interested in loking at biblically how it can be applied in todays church.

    We even have Baptist Denomination that is openly Pentecostal. Pentecostal Freewill Baptist.

    http://www.pfwb.org/forum/
     
  15. Ps104_33

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    check these out!
    http://www.bethanyccc.org/photos.htm

    http://www.ccr.org.au/

    You wouldnt have seen this in a RC church 50 years ago.

    http://www.ccr.org.au/prayermeeting.html
     
  16. Briguy

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    Hi atestring,

    I guess I never realized how many threads about tongues I have been involved in but you are right i have talked about quite a bit. I think it is one of those things I feel confident in discussing and it has a supernatural element which is interesting in itself. This thread didn't take off much but I do think that it is interesting that catholics have different opinions on the issue. Tongue speaking must not be incorporated into Catholic doctrine or there would not be the differences. I had heard about charismatic Catholic churches, in fact saw one on TV once and I had thought that most Catholics would say, tongues are not for today. From this thread I am unsure what Catholics in general believed.

    Ron, If I understood the links you posted, the writer in that case is not saying tongues are gone but is saying that the modern charismatic churches, including some Catholic churches are not practicing Biblical tongues.

    Any more responses or official or unofficial positions?

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  17. atestring

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    You cannot prove the " cessationsist heresy" that says that tongues ceased.
    Has knowledge ceased? Do we no longer see through a glass darkly?
    The AD70 stuff is an opinion and only an opinion.
     

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